Australian Rugby / RA

[Ash]

As for the NRC, I hate to be the negative bloke all the time, but I said at the time the whole competition design just wasn't viable long term. The real grass roots, the clubs got sidelined and that left behind most of the supporters. Hence as the competition has progressed most of these "semi-pro" games are attended and watched by less people than the weekly Shute Shield games.

To bring this back to the purpose of the thread the ARU is that inept they created a competition which was basically the same as the old failed one, with a few more spending controls, but basically only had one real feature that I could see that could have been advantageous. That of centralised control. But even that advantage was squandered with such poor promotion and scheduling. So next year it is likely that the NRC will be unfunded and another opportunity to improve the "grass roots" will be gone along with valuable capital. The Pulver effort has been no better than the Flowers job.

The clubs got included this time. They tendered.

There is no way, repeat no way, that a national comp can be built on the Shute Shield comp. Once people get past that fact, you realise that Shute Shield teams must largely be abandoned.

I hate to break it to you, but some select Shute Shield teams have been the major obstacle in a national comp as they want to stay standing as stand alone entities, and there's no way that will happen.

NRC needs funding, needs support, needs advertising, and it will grow. Whether the ARU has the funds to support the NRC until it can develop the fan base is another question.

 

[loiterer]

There are a number of posts on the forums of the Pulveriser turning up to Sydney Uni Colts games to watch his boy play footy.

While it hasn't been recorded on the forum that he has sold any chook raffle tickets or worked the BBW, there are a few posts on here where it is recorded that he has had frank conversations with gaggerlanders about the state of the game while watching his boy play.

I think that the Pulveriser does try his best to get out and about without the blazer. It is possible that other heavy hitters in Rugby have not embraced BP's willingness.

I think its a fair assumption that his son has spent many years playing junior club rugby, reps, school, gps, aust schoolboys etc. and that Pulver has spent a fair bit of time involved in grassroots rugby himself. I don't really think that he is doing the job for the money, I think he could make more elsewhere.

 

[Mr Doug]

There are a number of posts on the forums of the Pulveriser turning up to Sydney Uni Colts games to watch his boy play footy.

While it hasn't been recorded on the forum that he has sold any chook raffle tickets or worked the BBW, there are a few posts on here where it is recorded that he has had frank conversations with gaggerlanders about the state of the game while watching his boy play.

I think that the Pulveriser does try his best to get out and about without the blazer. It is possible that other heavy hitters in Rugby have not embraced BP's willingness.

Is that the "Beale Band Wagon", HJ?!

 

[Gnostic]

The clubs got included this time. They tendered.

There is no way, repeat no way, that a national comp can be built on the Shute Shield comp. Once people get past that fact, you realise that Shute Shield teams must largely be abandoned.

I hate to break it to you, but some select Shute Shield teams have been the major obstacle in a national comp as they want to stay standing as stand alone entities, and there's no way that will happen.

NRC needs funding, needs support, needs advertising, and it will grow. Whether the ARU has the funds to support the NRC until it can develop the fan base is another question.

I hate to break it to you but the top down growth system will not work quickly enough for it to support itself, especially when nobody is watching. My point is that growth requires spectator and supporter buy in. Very few have bought in have they. Dismal crowds and Fox wants out next year by all reports.

The
ARU will be broke next year barring a white knight coming to the rescue and I doubt that the NRC will see a second season. The real grass roots will still be there though struggling along on sausage sizzles. Any realistic assessment would've predicted this outcome and maybe some of those club sides saw that happening and couldn't invest into it.

 

[Parse]

Ned Kelly suit on (avoids stone throwing) and tin foil hat donned

Looking from the other side of the fence..........

Haven't the ARU done an absolutely fantastic job again this year promoting and running rugby union in Australia!
A successful 2014 Super rugby season with an Aussie team taking out the big prize, albeit some of the crowds and ratings were down more then they should considering that NSW teams success. Still it should be looking good for next year for crowds and ratings to soar as plenty of NSWelshmen are suckered just as all those gullible types in Qld have been fooled since 2011 making for healthy memberships and figures for 2015 at least in the big 2 states.
Yet again the rugby championship brought plenty of press and publicity via the ARU helped by the Wallabies even looking 'in with a chance' for more then just one game this year - a big stride forward in public perception by the ARU!
Of course the doldrums were to be expected after the RC completed and with only the northern tour for the ARU to promote but in 2014 the ARU have excelled and gone one better then previous years! After the Cooper/toxic a couple of years back and the JOC (James O'Connor) airline argument and dismissal last year the ARU have not only worked up another perfect media storm with the last of the 3 amigo's (Kurtley Beale) but also included a new second rate rugby competition that hasn't cost them a cent yet could perhaps be the media talking point in future years. The K.B. media promotion looked to maybe fall into a heap when last years "JOC (James O'Connor) - argument on, or near, a plane" seemed a little too close to this year's Kurtley story but the ARU quickly ensured a couple of pictures of naked women were added to the scenario to ensure the media blitz exploded and decimated any thought that this was preconceived media tripe.

And we still have the northern tour to go! I wonder if the ARU will excel and do a better job then the Dublin affair of last year.


(fx: climbs back over to this side of the fence)

 

[Ash]

I hate to break it to you but the top down growth system will not work quickly enough for it to support itself, especially when nobody is watching. My point is that growth requires spectator and supporter buy in. Very few have bought in have they. Dismal crowds and Fox wants out next year by all reports.

The
ARU will be broke next year barring a white knight coming to the rescue and I doubt that the NRC will see a second season. The real grass roots will still be there though struggling along on sausage sizzles. Any realistic assessment would've predicted this outcome and maybe some of those club sides saw that happening and couldn't invest into it.

So you say we should abandon the NRC we are back to multiple local comps, no real third tier, no real development pathway. The Shute Shield and Brisbane comps meanwhile are being weakened as players at the Force and Rebels and Brumbies are all required in their local comps now.

The reason that some of the clubs don't want to invest in the NRC is that they see themselves as the third tier, and see that the NRC is uprooting them.

The ARU is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The NRC basically cost the ARU next to nothing at the end of the day, and throwing that next to nothing at the grass roots would have done what exactly?

Once again, once people can finally admit the Shute Shield and equivalent comps around the country are not third tier, and a third tier comp will not magically form by supplanting 8 or so existing Sydney teams (mostly in the east of the Sydney) with a few teams from elsewhere in the country that they deem are acceptable to play against, we can move forward and see that concepts like the NRC are a decent solution, but they need time and money to grow, and unfortunately the ARU is strapped for the latter.

 

[Marcelo]

support the jerseys, not the people inside them. Support what the jersey once was, perhaps not what it is now.

I'm struggling as well but I expect I will end up getting up to watch the games (not convinced just yet). I'll see 15 gold jerseys though and it can be just like any of the great eras. Similar jerseys as previously - just the number on the back (no names!).

Squint a little as you watch and it may even seem that it's Simon Poidevin in #7 or NFJ in #9. A tanned Roger Gould at the back, or a really tanned Mortlock in #13.

Don't punish yourself further. We need to get some fulfilment from our love of the game. Deny yourself the chance to watch it and the terrorists have already won.

Yeaaaaahhhh, that's the attitude of a true rugby supporter

 

[Quick Hands]

There are a number of posts on the forums of the Pulveriser turning up to Sydney Uni Colts games to watch his boy play footy.

While it hasn't been recorded on the forum that he has sold any chook raffle tickets or worked the BBW, there are a few posts on here where it is recorded that he has had frank conversations with gaggerlanders about the state of the game while watching his boy play.

I think that the Pulveriser does try his best to get out and about without the blazer. It is possible that other heavy hitters in Rugby have not embraced BP's willingness.

There's no doubt that Pulver is (a) a nice bloke and (b) loves rugby, but that desciption could apply to most of us on these threads.

You'll note in my post #135 that the AFL CEO wasn't at Melbourne Uni colts or Toorak juniors - he was out with middle eastern primary aged kids in western Sydney. Kids whose families probably didn't even know that aussie rules existed until recently and possibly still don't know that rugby exists.

See the difference?

 

[Quick Hands]

Can Pulver take the 'blazer' off and go down to a local area and throw a few cut outs with the boys and girls? It's not just players that make the difference but as the AFL does pretty well, they recognise that administrators can also help with the grassroots stuff rather than being in the corporate boxes all the time.

Trouble is, Bill's local area is Mosman, which is one of the few places in Australia where rugby is the dominant winter sport.

 

[Gnostic]

So you say we should abandon the NRC we are back to multiple local comps, no real third tier, no real development pathway. The Shute Shield and Brisbane comps meanwhile are being weakened as players at the Force and Rebels and Brumbies are all required in their local comps now.

The reason that some of the clubs don't want to invest in the NRC is that they see themselves as the third tier, and see that the NRC is uprooting them.

The ARU is damned if they do and damned if they don't. The NRC basically cost the ARU next to nothing at the end of the day, and throwing that next to nothing at the grass roots would have done what exactly?

Once again, once people can finally admit the Shute Shield and equivalent comps around the country are not third tier, and a third tier comp will not magically form by supplanting 8 or so existing Sydney teams (mostly in the east of the Sydney) with a few teams from elsewhere in the country that they deem are acceptable to play against, we can move forward and see that concepts like the NRC are a decent solution, but they need time and money to grow, and unfortunately the ARU is strapped for the latter.

You've missed the point. I run three small businesses there are plenty of good ideas that I just cannot supply the required funding for and that includes the three to five years it takes for establishment. I didn't say it should be abandoned, I think it is inevitable that it will collapse simply because hasn't been designed from a business point of view with any long term funding to ensure establishment. It was set up for a year and hope.Hence my reasoning that sustainability over that three to five year period to establish the comp and it's support was essential and needed to make use of the existing support. The loss I mentioned isn't just seed funding and capital, it is the time and the standing in the market place as a second comp fails.

 

[Quick Hands]

Watching Sydney Uni Colts each weekend is not really broadening his horizons too much.

Mosman juniors, Shore school and Sydney Uni colts. You couldn't really ask for a narrower view of the horizon could you?

 

[Ruggo]

We badly need outside help. The actual game of rugby will never change but how it is presented to the broader community will and we won't look back.

I don't really care if Pulver solicits that outside help or is given the arse for that outsider but the inner sanctum needs to be disbanded. They seem to have some bullshit in their heads that they are insulating the game when in truth they are hindering it from enter a new and exciting age. Bringing new people into rugby will not result in dooms day.

 

[Braveheart81]

Mosman juniors, Shore school and Sydney Uni colts. You couldn't really ask for a narrower view of the horizon could you?

A narrow view of the horizon?

All the brochures promised panoramic views.

I wonder if any of them will be at Robbie Deans' book signing at a Mosman bookshop tomorrow?

 

[boyo]

Right locality.

 

[Quick Hands]

We badly need outside help. The actual game of rugby will never change but how it is presented to the broader community will and we won't look back.

I don't really care if Pulver solicits that outside help or is given the arse for that outsider but the inner sanctum needs to be disbanded. They seem to have some bullshit in their heads that they are insulating the game when in truth they are hindering it from enter a new and exciting age. Bringing new people into rugby will not result in dooms day.

 

[Muglair]

As you can see I am a member of Easts. All members were advised of the club's decision not to participate due to the financial cost of doing so. Instead support in kind was provided to the Country Eagles and Easts players did certainly play in that team.

It is a fine point of distinction to say the NRC cost the ARU nothing. However it was funding provided by financial supporters of the ARU. My understanding is that participating tenders had to demonstrate they could commit $350k although I am not exactly sure how the funding worked. Multiply by 9 and that is close to $3m.

Alternative structures were floated about for lower cost formats. They might not have reached the playing standards of the NRC or been suitable for televising, but who cares. The point is that the players need to be exposed to a higher standard of players, whether in opposition or on their team. The ones that adapt best increase their chances of an initial contract.

Again this competition cannot possibly proceed in the same format next year. The ARU cannot afford it and we only get a pop for our buck. Hopefully next year's competition will look like a sedan rather than an E type Jag. As one of my favourite mentors says, I hope the ARU learns that "it can only fuck with the dick its got".

 

[Train Without a Station]

Muglair, the only way the competition will be sustainable is if it is a viable TV product. To demonstrate it is, they need to develop a competition. Any lower cost alternatives would be further away from where it needs to be than the NRC would be.

It's a long term investment. Teams got fuck all for their money now, but the same could have been said for NRL clubs years ago. Now with TV money they see a large amount of money trickling down from the NRL. Yes many are unsustainable, but that's more a matter of poor management and football department spending than anything. The game provides money to run clubs.

Based on your sums Muglair, the ARU needs to get a TV deal of an additional $3M a year in order to pay for the clubs costs completely at the current level. What the clubs get out of it is being dragged up into professionalism, much like NRL clubs did, as the competition becomes a better product.

It's not unreasonable to expect a competition sponsored by Fox Sports, on the basis it's market penetration potential was unknown, and therefore only as 1 game televised per week, could increase it's broadcast deal by $3M a year by quadrupling their TV product providing the viewers were achieved.

 

[Strewthcobber]

From the NRC EOI (pdf)

The ARU will cover travel and accommodation expenses for all teams and the cost of staging the competition. The costs of establishing,
staffing, preparing and running the team and home match day costs
will be borne by the team, who will take the match day receipts

Presumably the Foxtel money pays for the ARU share, and the teams use sponsorship and gate receipts to pay for their share.

 

[Train Without a Station]

So if you can market your team to get more spectators and members you can recover your costs and make a profit?

 

[Ruggo]

The NRC needs a broader since of community, not just the existing rugby community. In it's first year we can't expect miracles and it will take several years to get a footing. That's where the long term viability of the NRC. To keep it on its feet now we kind of need a minimalist approach to match day costs. Stick with arvo footy for example and make it a viable family day out. Along with that will come the sense of community it needs long term.

No brainer in that the stronger it's community footprint, the bigger the leverage will be had on developing TV deals.

Once again we, we need sports admin help from outside the inner sanctum.