Australian Rugby / RA

[TOCC]

World Rugby is leaps and bounds ahead of the AFL and NRL when it comes to dealing with head injuries, far from perfect but some of their policies are reassuring to see

 

[jimmydubs]

There's a thread on this subject

 

[lou75]

The problem is, people (us, journos, etc...) start throwing up "rugby" names usually on the basis of their long involvement in rugby without critically looking at their suitability. Rugby is niche enough that some background in it is probably desirable, but unfortunately many entrenched rugby people in the public eye in any way are just that, entrenched. The network needs to be at least seriously reworked, if not broken, not just rewired in a new box.

absolutely - the first step is to get the board right - the board needs to be high profile successful corporates who know how to run a business, not ex rugby heroes and jersey tuggers. Then the governance can be put in place and the new CEO, and other management hired. To keep Clyne and co is to keep the same architects of this f*&ked up strategy while the new guy - oh an old pal, steers the ship towards eternal oblivion.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You miss the point Michael, entitled and self centred statements from somebody who doesn't watch the game. I'll watch Rugby regardless of who is playing generally, though the I dropped out of the Australian Super Rugby games this year because of the lack of quality.



I find it strange that people who'll watch the contrived altered rules competition of the NRC won't watch the Shute shield which is IMO better quality.

I now watch both...you should try the same....re NRC as well as Shute Shield.

As to the contrived altered rules of NRC.....rugby needs to evolve as an entertainment product which is why the rule change trials are sanctioned by World Rugby.

I find your comments disappointing as you don't seem to be following your own advise as you criticised Michael for making criticism about Shute Shield and not having watched a game. Have you bothered to actually go along and watch a NRC game. It is quite an entertaining and fast paced product but yes not marketed well and yes its evolution could have perhaps been better to not alienate club rugby factions (SS in particular but lets face it latter is a political beast which has not been blameless for playing own agenda and self interests too hard). Ok NRC might not be for you just as SS might not be for others either...what is the difference.

NRC at least is trying to trial and offer a different sort of product that may appeal to different audiences as you can put your head in the sand and think it is just a problem with Super Rugby. It isn't...the game of rugby needs to evolve with demands for modern day sports fan to compete in what is a crowded sports market.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

https://omny.fm/shows/the-alan-jones-breakfast-show/western-force-saga-rolls-on

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ok sometimes out of chaos comes opportunity.

So lets assume Force win their appeal and are reinstated. This means we are back with 5 teams and ARU in perilous financial state with limited funds available for grass roots.

Okay so lets also assume that with Force reprieve their is a complete clean out and replacement of the ARU board. This is where the real opportunity to my mind could be to move forward.

As with new Chairman and CEO distanced from the previous baggage, they could use the opportunity as fresh start to tap into and reach out to TF and via him and others seek to get the support of key business figures involved and behind moving rugby forward (TF offered a ARU board position?).

Then the ARU could facilitate establishing a grass roots fund via working with TF and other key business figures who are respected and get their support for this (as ARU even with new people involved would find it hard to lead this alone given their tainted brand image and reputation which will take a lot of time to repair). I know we have the Australian Rugby Foundation but this is more targeted on more topical and supported theme of grassroots. Then once established - go to philatrophists and leading business figures as well as the public to build up a grass roots fund to invest in grass roots. Heck, if could get TF behind this (and for him to tip in couple of million) I would donate some money towards this. ARU alone - probably not - but TF and other respected public figures behind it - yep I would.

Why then this could work?

Well People are strongly connected to grassroots and this issue much more visible than ever with lot of media and public debate on this. We also have the opportunity with TF more at the forefront and with the respect and connections he has into the business community to get wider support for this to provide a fund to provide that initial investment needed in grass roots given been significant underinvestment in this area. It then gives time to rebuild and get our house in order whilst investing in key grass roots initiatives using this fund.

Yes this could only work if a) current ARU board cleaned out b) Force reinstated and c) TF and other key figures brought back on board and have their energy and connections harnessed towards improving grass roots...rather than keeping them on the outer as current ARU has done.

Just some thoughts....pipedream...maybe...but I thought getting a well respected billionaire interested in and visible in our game a short time ago was a pipedream....at least that was until the current ARU seemed to want to shatter that pipedream too. One still hopes sanity prevails....particularly when you know your own views are aligned with the weight of public opinion.

 

[dru]

.

Yes this could only work if a) current ARU board cleaned out

That's the problem. Or at least one problem. The belligerence of Clyne is simply breathtaking. I see little chance of him acknowledging the damage he has personally created, let alone stepping down. In turn I doubt the rest of the board would remove themselves.

Lot's of talk around possible new CEO but it means nothing if the same board is pulling the strings. In fact, without administative change at NSW and Qld we end up fishing in the same pond for Board replacements so even if the board goes it's a nil sum gain.


I don't see a lot of positive at the ARU, now, next year, or leading on.

I will naturally be very enthusisatic to be proven wrong.

 

[KOB1987]

Gallop is being specced.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...o/news-story/a6eab87b701f2e1197be956d52a54487

 

[bedandbreakfast]

"
My questions to Wallaby fans and supporters of the ARU

"

 

[Gnostic]

I now watch both.you should try the same..re NRC as well as Shute Shield.



As to the contrived altered rules of NRC...rugby needs to evolve as an entertainment product which is why the rule change trials are sanctioned by World Rugby.



I find your comments disappointing as you don't seem to be following your own advise as you criticised Michael for making criticism about Shute Shield and not having watched a game. Have you bothered to actually go along and watch a NRC game. It is quite an entertaining and fast paced product but yes not marketed well and yes its evolution could have perhaps been better to not alienate club rugby factions (SS in particular but lets face it latter is a political beast which has not been blameless for playing own agenda and self interests too hard). Ok NRC might not be for you just as SS might not be for others either.what is the difference.



NRC at least is trying to trial and offer a different sort of product that may appeal to different audiences as you can put your head in the sand and think it is just a problem with Super Rugby. It isn't.the game of rugby needs to evolve with demands for modern day sports fan to compete in what is a crowded sports market.

I have watched the televised games. I watch the Top 14 Currie Cup and NPC as well, if its Rugby I tend to watch it. My comments are indeed from what I have seen. As per my other comments on numerous threads I live a long way from any games, not metro type long way, country type long way, so I haven't been to one live.

Some games have been good but many have been about the standard of the Australian Super sides this year.

The difference is that in a climate of limited finances and serious erosion of organisational capital the ARU spends both on a completely new competition with questionable benefits. I do not doubt that in 5 to 10 years the competition could become something more and provide what its stated aims are, but the inescapable fact is that Rugby doesn't have the capital or to spend now. The results are needed in the short term, and hence why any proposal really had to build off the existing base structures. Sure the Shute teams in particular play a brand of the toxic political NSWRU game that needs to be eliminated entirely, but in saying that this move has always smacked as political move by the ARU itself just dressed up a bit more. The NRC has failed badly to engage the base rugby public and that is the genesis to the present of my position.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Gallop is being specced.



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/rugby/ffa-boss-david-gallop-in-contention-to-replace-bill-pulver-as-aru-ceo/news-story/a6eab87b701f2e1197be956d52a54487

Could do worse than get Gallop as proven pedigree as sports administrator - something which lacked with previous appointments. We really could do with some outside and new fresh thinking to tackle rugby's problems and challenge the status quo.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I have watched the televised games. I watch the Top 14 Currie Cup and NPC as well, if its Rugby I tend to watch it. My comments are indeed from what I have seen. As per my other comments on numerous threads I live a long way from any games, not metro type long way, country type long way, so I haven't been to one live.



Some games have been good but many have been about the standard of the Australian Super sides this year.



The difference is that in a climate of limited finances and serious erosion of organisational capital the ARU spends both on a completely new competition with questionable benefits. I do not doubt that in 5 to 10 years the competition could become something more and provide what its stated aims are, but the inescapable fact is that Rugby doesn't have the capital or to spend now. The results are needed in the short term, and hence why any proposal really had to build off the existing base structures. Sure the Shute teams in particular play a brand of the toxic political NSWRU game that needs to be eliminated entirely, but in saying that this move has always smacked as political move by the ARU itself just dressed up a bit more. The NRC has failed badly to engage the base rugby public and that is the genesis to the present of my position.

Gnostic you are off track - the ARU does not spend a cent on the NRC....broadcasters, clubs and volunteers involved foot the bill.

 

[wamberal]

Fresh thinking, eh. You really need to look back at his reputation in the other code, when he was widely vilified and despised for selling the tv rights far too cheaply.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Fresh thinking, eh. You really need to look back at his reputation in the other code, when he was widely vilified and despised for selling the tv rights far too cheaply.

Yes thanks do remember that, but otherwise seems to be well regarded as sports administrator. I really at this point would like to see someone outside of Australia rugby as yes we need some outside thinking to challenge the status quo especially as status quo is rather broken and fractured.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I really at this point would like to see someone outside of Australia rugby as yes we need some outside thinking to challenge the status quo especially as status quo is rather broken and fractured.

We need someone nobody in oz went to school with, who never played for any club here and who has no loyalty to any province.
They also need to have a blind disregard for self preservation and probably no family or pets.
Their passport should be surrendered on arrival.
When the jobs done they can go into witness protection.

 

[TOCC]

I find it strange that people who'll watch the contrived altered rules competition of the NRC won't watch the Shute shield which is IMO better quality.

Its easy, SS represents only a small part of Australian Rugby, over 60% of the Australian Rugby public live outside of Sydney. And, even some who live in Sydney like myself, have no affiliation to any Sydney club.

That's not to say it's not reasonably decent rugby, but I have no attahement to any teams so it doesn't capture my attention.

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic you are off track - the ARU does not spend a cent on the NRC..broadcasters, clubs and volunteers involved foot the bill.

Not really they may not be spending their own budget, but they are spending. Also they are spending non monetary capital.

 

[Gnostic]

Its easy, SS represents only a small part of Australian Rugby, over 60% of the Australian Rugby public live outside of Sydney. And, even some who live in Sydney like myself, have no affiliation to any Sydney club.



That's not to say it's not reasonably decent rugby, but I have no attahement to any teams so it doesn't capture my attention.

As I've said here many times, I have no affiliation to any club either, and apart from my Alma Mata have never been a member of a club for various reasons, mostly work related. BUT I watch as I said Rugby, regardless of who is playing, though this year I turned off many of the Australian Super games. Its easy to take my comments as pertaining only to the Shute but for those of us in NSW it is the only FTA rugby for most of the season.

I won't go over it all again, but suffice to say nobody has challenged the key points of failure, that being lack of traction in the single biggest supporter base, the lack of time that Rugby has to achieve that traction and engagement of the fans so that the NRC can actual achieve the development role it is supposed to provide.

No need to reply this is a circular argument and it has been such for two years now.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Not really they may not be spending their own budget, but they are spending. Also they are spending non monetary capital.

Many want to watch a national and higher level competition - read professional and semi professional - think AFL and NRL so to just say people should watch SS is ignoring there is a bigger market who don't want to just watch SS or like me recently will watch a little SS but also want to watch higher level - semi professional or professional game but not have to go back to NRL or AFL to do so. Why can't you respect that.

I think the NRC produces really good rugby as does SS, I wish you would just be a little less anti NRC as it gives the opportunity to see the leading club players across the country up against fringe Super Rugby players to test their mettle and some of us enjoy it. Where else do you see that!

I think the non monetary investment made by the ARU in NRC is worth it and sadly if they took too long after ARC debacle (where had wrong funding model) to get this going again.

Crowds and ratings are improving season on season and yes but from low base but with financial constraints and limitations as short form competition got to start somewhere.

There is a role for SS as is there is a role for a higher level national competition as pathways. Yes the NRC as short form competition does not provide probably the long term answer but it is a start and low risk one from financial and non monetary capital investment required and helps with trialling something (and learn lessons in low risk way) that could be evolved into a better national competition or something else. I really wish you would not be so myopic thinking we can just have the SS below the Wallabies. Part of the problem is this self interests of different factions re: clubs, state unions etc and it is about more than just one interest group and not everyone wants to watch club rugby or vice versa professional teams but respect for many rugby fans there are many who want to watch pure amateur rugby like SS or PR.

I am pleased to see hardened club folk like Papworth get involved in NRC as this whole them vs us between club rugby and other semi pro and professional competitions has to stop as this bickering and fractured nature of rugby and petty politics is what has equally stopped moving our game forward in this country. We need an organisation and leader who can work with parties to create a more united front on different pathways and stop the petty politics that is Australian Rugby.

 

[TOCC]

As I've said here many times, I have no affiliation to any club either, and apart from my Alma Mata have never been a member of a club for various reasons, mostly work related. BUT I watch as I said Rugby, regardless of who is playing, though this year I turned off many of the Australian Super games. Its easy to take my comments as pertaining only to the Shute but for those of us in NSW it is the only FTA rugby for most of the season.

I won't go over it all again, but suffice to say nobody has challenged the key points of failure, that being lack of traction in the single biggest supporter base, the lack of time that Rugby has to achieve that traction and engagement of the fans so that the NRC can actual achieve the development role it is supposed to provide.

No need to reply this is a circular argument and it has been such for two years now.

I don't disagree that the NRC isn't without its issues..

But that's not what the question was, you asked why people don't watch the Shute shield, and it's clear that you're the exception not the norm when it comes to watching teams you have no affiliation to. The quality of play whilst some are very good, some were crap, even the good ones arnet good enough for me to justify the opportunity cost of whatever else I can do on my weekend.

The reality of the Shute Shield is that it doesn't present mass market appeal to rugby fans outside of Sydney. This isn't the EPL or La Liga, they aren't that good that they warrant been watched despite not having any allegiance to.