Australian Rugby Development Centre

[I like to watch]

Of course it will be fucking less.
Ever heard you can't have your cake and eat it too?
Eastwood are going to sell an asset,let the Government spend a gut load in improvements.then be allowed full usage rights in perpetuity.
They are hardly pay a premium for the land in that scenario are they?
So technically it's not a handout,but if it looks like a duck,quacks like a duck.....

 

[young gun]

[quote="wamberal, post: 526934, member: 1924
We will never know the financial details, but I think you can assume that the price paid to Eastwood would be significantly less than they could get on the open market, a discounted price to reflect the value that the Club will get from being able to remain there in perpetuity.


It's an interesting point you raise about the value of the land and it, probably, being sold at a discount, but how much money does the ARU actually have to put into this? My understanding is that the value of the land has been looked at over a number of years and there are big dollars involved - well beyond the $10 mill from the Govt (absolute multiples).

Just think about it, how many houses could fit across the front facade (5, 6, 7 8 ... ?) and how many deep (7, 8, 9 ... ?) by how much is a block of land worth there? ... $500k+ = a lot of money.

If Eastwood received, in cash, anywhere near its value (and no one has said they will get cash or the market value will be paid) it would make then one of the richest, in terms of cash reserves, sporting clubs in Australia. I say good on them - but where's the value for the ARU?

I'm not suggesting anything suspicious, the Directors at Eastwood are all well respected and capable men, I'm just wondering from the ARU side - have they gone onto the property speculation business? (only joking on the last point)

Allowing for all that - happy to see it happen but wondering about the economics.

 

[I like to watch]

It is worth zero for housing,if you are building a high performance building that the club can use for free forever,instead of houses.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Interesting that the Feds Rugby pork barrel is going on what is now "privately" owned land.

The money for the Rabbitohs training facility is going to be spent on publicly owned land at Heffron Park, and most likely a fairly substantial part of a public park will be become off limits to the general public. Junior sport will be looking for more access to what is becoming less and less available publicly available sporting assets. IIRC a mungo junior club trains and plays there as does Marist College, Marcellin College and South Sydney High School.

There is also a ton of soccer played on the adjoining ovals. They will likely be squeezed out as well.

 

[young gun]

It is worth zero for housing,if you are building a high performance building that the club can use for free forever,instead of houses.

Interesting answer, I can live with that. So what you're saying is that the ARU will pay little cash, if any? The grounds have always been a financial drain on the club - I'm a member by the way - so I guess it makes sense. Woodies get better facilities for no real cost and ARU gets a ($1,000,000 by X ) asset that it can mortgage as necessary to help manage cash flow, plus have the HPU there - everyones a winner.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I hope like hell that Edie Obeid is not a member of the Eastwood Club.

History is full of sad stories where sporting and community clubs have been diddled of almost everything that they have by shrewd operators from the Property Development world who have promised the earth only to shaft the club with nasty details in the fine print.

 

[Rob42]

My understanding is that the land was originally given to the club for as long as rugby was played there. Therefore talk about its value for other development, eg housing, is moot - if it is not being used for rugby, it is of zero value to the club or the ARU.

 

[TOCC]

Of course it will be fucking less.
Ever heard you can't have your cake and eat it too?
Eastwood are going to sell an asset,let the Government spend a gut load in improvements.then be allowed full usage rights in perpetuity.
They are hardly pay a premium for the land in that scenario are they?
So technically it's not a handout,but if it looks like a duck,quacks like a duck...

Eastwood aren't selling anything, they are benefiting by not only receiving upgraded facilities but also spreading the maintenance facility costs across the new co-tenant. The Government aren't going to own this land, the ARU will lease the land as a co-tenant.

Of course it's a handout....

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Where is all this infrastructure going to be built?

On the part of the top field that is sometimes used as a car park, or will there be a knockdown rebuild going on somewhere down on the bottom field?

 

[wamberal]

Where is all this infrastructure going to be built?

On the part of the top field that is sometimes used as a car park, or will there be a knockdown rebuild going on somewhere down on the bottom field?

Good question. The main ground should have been sited a bit further from the road in the first place, to allow for a bigger, better grandstand eventually.


I would assume that the whole job would be a total rebuild, they are talking about gyms and an indoor pool. Presumably there will also have to be on-site accommodation.

 

[Lindommer]

The builders could start with the old bowling greens/current childcare facility on the northern boundary. And then move on to an Endeavour/Toyota Park/Shark Park/whatever it's called now-style combined offices and grandstand on the western side. There's room enough to build things at Millner without chewing up playing space on the top two fields.

But there's shitloads more at Ballymore.

 

[wamberal]

But there's shitloads more at Ballymore.

Ballymore must be in a safe seat.

 

[SevensPhD]

I heard the ARU considered at least 3 locations and provided each an opportunity to bid/show benefits. Bond University's newly acquired "GC Titans" Centre of Excellence, Ballymore, and Millner. I am sure there might be a couple more.

Bond apparently screwed themselves somehow, not sure why Ballymore wasn't chosen, but QLD should have won it just for the weather!

Myself, I am just happy Australia is finally centralising the 7s teams!

 

[Hugh Jarse]

It makes sense to have a variety of facilities that facilitate the National team/teams in Boys and Girls footy as well as 15's and 7's.

The logical locations are obviously Sydney, BrisVegas, the Gold Coast and the ACT.

In Sydney ARU currently sponge off Tahs at Moore Park. I guess that they will relocate to TG Millner, leaving Moore Park to the Tahs.
In Gold Coast, there is some form of arrangement between Bond Uni and the ARU.
In BrisVegas the ARU Detatchment sponge of QRU/Reds facilities at Ballymore. Perhaps they should have their own empire there.
In Canberra, Brumbies have access to the AIS. I suspect that the HPU team there sponge off the Ponnies infrastructure. ARU need to get something going with the AIS (If they haven't already done so).
Similar hosting arrangements probably exist in Melbourne and Perth with the local Soup franchises.

Is that enough? Should there be more? Should it be more centralised, or even more decentralised?

What is so broken with the current arrangements?

Will ARU HQ be moving West (ish) from St Leonards?

 

[Pfitzy]

Genuine question: why is the Gold Coast a logical location?

 

[SevensPhD]

Is that enough? Should there be more? Should it be more centralised, or even more decentralised?

What is so broken with the current arrangements?

Nothing really broken with the current arrangements, it is still a great model to host national team camps all over Australia. However, the core of the Aussie 7s teams need to have more time together as that season lasts 8-10 months depending on RWC7s, GGs, etc. And the 1-2 week camp ahead of each tournament is not working.

Most other top unions (South Africa, England, NZ, even the USA) have centralised the fulltime 7s players. Then have extended camps and invite a broader training squad in before each tournament.

 

[SevensPhD]

Genuine question: why is the Gold Coast a logical location?

GC is not ideal for a Wallabies set-up, but it would be perfect for centralised sevens teams. Weather. Existing world class facilities at Bond. Home turf for Gold Coast 7s tournament. Focus on sevens training.

I'd wager that this new Australian Rugby Development Centre was created more for the sevens teams on the back of the Olympics, than for the Wallabies. Of course the Wallabies will utilise it, but the main tenant and consistent user will be sevens.

If Australia is to "keep up with the Jones" they needed a home base for the sevens teams. Centralised sevens is the global trend.

 

[p.Tah]

Seeing that its just up the road will the Development Centre form a partnership with Macquarie Uni? Seems to be popular at the moment.

They have a Centre for Elite Performance

http://www.psy.mq.edu.au/CEPET/

 

[Hugh Jarse]

So we could have:
Sydney Uni aligned with Sydney Uni
Wicks with UNSW
Gordon with UTS
Parra or Penrith with UWS
Woodies with Macquarie Uni
MMM with International Business School
Pirates with ?
Hobbits with ?
Beasts with University of TSC and Cranbrook
Rats with ?
Shoremen with ?

 

[wamberal]

Wollongong and Newcastle also have universities. Maybe Southern D with the former, Norths with the latter?

Pirates and Warringah could be aligned with the School of Hard Knocks.