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Australian Rugby / RA

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
When did reducing the pro teams suddenly mean the wallabies perform better? Is it because of Ben Darwin’s cohesion theory? Other than that I don’t see much evidence. People point at back in the day, but is that just a decline because other teams have usurped us? it’s also dull to ignore the fact that the better they have become so has the professional opportunities in these countries, so works against the theory. How do we explain that Argentina have just finished a season with their worst ever losing run happened in their history, funnily enough under one team. Darwin’s theory doesn’t actually focus on reduction or loss of opportunity, it focuses on funneling talent into minimal bases. It gets lost in translation.

Ireland 10/15yrs ago were asking questions about their ability to compete against other teams and looked at cutting their teams down, the expert that came in told them it would be a backward step and that it wouldnt provide what’s required to compete in the modern world game. His reasoning stated that there needs to be 120 pro players to sustain a competitive national team in the modern game because injuries and form dictate performance more now in a hyper professional world. Put in simple terms if you have 2 teams it takes 2 injuries and suddenly your club level reserve guy is starting a major international, not ideal.

To me the question shouldn’t be reducing team, that ignores so many aspects like lack of opportunities and lack of visibility which are massive drivers for player retention and also encouraging people into the game. Perhaps the model has to change where like in Ireland there is more a clear definition of what a teams purpose is. Obviously all teams aspire to win however Connacht in Ireland is seen almost as a development union, ulster somewhere in the middle and Munster & Leinster are high performance unions that attract the highest level of funds. Maybe we need to be at the stage where the Waratahs are the Leinster of our system (where they theoretically should never go through a rebuilding phase) QLD the Munster, Brumbies the Ulster and Rebels the Connacht. Your Hodges, Uelese’s, Jones, etc. spend formative years at the Rebels then get encouraged to head East to Sydney, etc. which will see Darwin’s cohesion theory work in practice as QLD and NSW would end up with most the Wallabies. Equally talented players that can’t break the first teams of NSW and QLD are encouraged to head to Melb or ACT for opportunity. It could mean twice the amount of money is spent on Tahs than Brums or Rebels but you’d have your largest market engaged which brings others positives.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
This is probably true if the primary goal is maximising the performance of the Wallabies, but that is only one potential goal for professional rugby in Australia. An alternative goal might be to spread the professional game as far and wide as possible and maximise the number of people in Australia who consider themselves genuine fans of the sport.

One way to think about this is to ask yourself whether rugby has done better in Australia or France over the last 25 years? The Wallabies have been ranked above France the majority of the time since the sport went professional, and the French national team has underperformed in general. On the other hand France has the biggest and most popular professional domestic competition in the world, with two tiers of professional clubs.


Goals and measure of success always interest me. Are Melbourne Storm a successful teams? Yes, but have they expanded the playing base in Victoria? No (2 Victorian players in 26 years). This is why I see merit in running professional rugby separately to the community game however it didnt seem to be too successful with the Waratahs/NSWRU (I'm sure there was a raft of other reasons other than just the model)
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Goals and measure of success always interest me. Are Melbourne Storm a successful teams? Yes, but have they expanded the playing base in Victoria? No (2 Victorian players in 26 years).


I doubt that the Storm organisation has ever had the goal of "expanding the playing base in Victoria". Why would they? They are a success on the criteria that count. They are winners, and they have allowed the NRL to expand its footprint significantly.
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
I doubt that the Storm organisation has ever had the goal of "expanding the playing base in Victoria". Why would they? They are a success on the criteria that count. They are winners, and they have allowed the NRL to expand its footprint significantly.


Which is my point. That isn't the case for the Super Rugby teams and state unions.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Anyone know anything about this McLennan guy? Former News Corp exec sounds like Fox have won the battle to me.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Anyone know anything about this McLennan guy? Former News Corp exec sounds like Fox have won the battle to me.
The fox is in the hen house.

I typed a bit about him many pages back when there were shouts of "conflict of interest" about some Mosman chaps - and OK, that wasn't a good look.

But we're not hearing so many shouts any more, when the conflict of interest is even greater.

The unfortunate hard reality is that RA needs a broadcast deal and Foxtel will be it, regardless of the previous price.

I'd like to see a 2-to-3-year agreement rather than 5 years with Fox, but that's me being naive. If a revenue sharing arrangement is maintained, income drop could perhaps be - only maybe - slightly mitigated at NZ's expense (they've been net beneficiaries for two decades). But there will still be an income drop.

McLennan himself is a successful executive but inextricably a NewsCorp guy, however you cut it.
 
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Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Anyone know anything about this McLennan guy? Former News Corp exec sounds like Fox have won the battle to me.
Yes, I know him, very well connected with the Murdochs, if we are doing a deal with Foxtel (whether we should or not is another matter) there are none better to strike it. Aside from that, a tough businessman who will leave a mark, decisions will be made with him at the helm.
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Yes, I know him, very well connected with the Murdochs, if we are doing a deal with Foxtel (whether we should or not is another matter) there are none better to strike it. Aside from that, a tough businessman who will leave a mark, decisions will be made with him at the helm.

Well, good riddance to Clyne anyway. Though I do feel we are in rugby groundhog day.

I wish the best to McLennan, but I seriously want to see where he takes things.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
I like you thinking OC, but not on this point of debate, in that:

- France has a population of 67m​
- There is there no winter NRL and AFL and soccer all as a bundle of football codes creating massive winter code competition in our popn of 23m​
- Most of the French rugby teams are dominated by private money (highly unlikely at present as a means to rebuild Aust rugby IMO)​
- The 6N is a major money spinner for French rugby, more so than TRC (with its very high T&A costs etc) is for RA here​
- Rugby in Aust today is in a dire state; to me it is unimaginable to see how it can be restored just by more and more pro teams per se and irrespective of their competitive calibre. esp given all the above factors​

These are all fair points, though I think soccer in France (and perhaps even more so in England, which has a similar model) is equivalent to NRL and AFL combined. France has 30 professional rugby clubs, could Australia really not have say 8 to give the game a little bit of extra reach and rivalry in key markets? RA could even potentially leave this tournament to be run by a commission representing the clubs/franchises. This may encourage private investment or community ownership. RA could focus on the amateur game, national teams, and maybe a state of origin series as part of the Wallabies pathway. For the domestic competition they could just provide a window, a set level of funding and a framework for access to players.

I've seen you supportive of a domestic competition in the Super Rugby thread, but here you've said we need to reduce our number of professional teams. How could we have a domestic competition with even fewer teams than we have now? Surely you'd need at least 6 teams if not 8.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Anyone know anything about this McLennan guy? Former News Corp exec sounds like Fox have won the battle to me.



I'm pretty sure what the Murdoch papers performed today is known as "bukkake," and Hamish McLennan is going to need a towel.........
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Well, good riddance to Clyne anyway. Though I do feel we are in rugby groundhog day.

I wish the best to McLennan, but I seriously want to see where he takes things.

No RA Chairpersons than, respectively, Hawker and Clyne, could ever, ever be worse than them. They defined the very principle of ‘what not to do, but just do it anyway’.

My faith in the human genome’s proven capacity for positive evolution assures me that, statistically, we cannot have a third in a row that so defines the toxic combination of arrogance, self righteousness, and incompetence as did these now predecessors to McLennan.
 
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