Australian Schoolboys & National Championship 2010
- Thread starter Lee Grant
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spectator
Bob Davidson (42)
Agree with some of your post Rothschild however, on Ben Tapuai.... I believe he has more all round talent than Johannsen. He can cover 10 to 13 although his best position is 12. His strengths are that he is an exceptional tackler and he can bust the line. He also has quite good hands. I reckon he will put a lot of pressure on Fainga'a in 2011, but he won't be the only one. Watch out for Jono Lance as well.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
Tapui is a complete player whereas Johannsen is just big.
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Rothschild
Guest
As I said Taps has talent - far more than Lloyd ever had.
As for Lance - he is a sleeper and his time is approaching to make his mark. It won't be easy with A Finger and Cooper there but given the right opportunities I think he will go well. he has bee nurtured very well in grade. Like many I think he probably need to move away from Qld however if he is to get a chance. Qls seem to have a mass storage facility of backs and the que for opportunity and recognition is in some cases very long -
As for Lance - he is a sleeper and his time is approaching to make his mark. It won't be easy with A Finger and Cooper there but given the right opportunities I think he will go well. he has bee nurtured very well in grade. Like many I think he probably need to move away from Qld however if he is to get a chance. Qls seem to have a mass storage facility of backs and the que for opportunity and recognition is in some cases very long -
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Rotschild do you rate Lance over Tapuai, Ive never seen him play only heard about his matches for Uni and a report on the U20's at the JWC
I thought Lance was more of a 10/12, Taps should go to the rebels if he cant get a start at the reds in the next 2 years.
Also do you think many of the academy boys (recently promoted or in the actual academy) will play much this year?
I thought Lance was more of a 10/12, Taps should go to the rebels if he cant get a start at the reds in the next 2 years.
Also do you think many of the academy boys (recently promoted or in the actual academy) will play much this year?
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Rothschild
Guest
I don't have anything to do with the academy in Brisbane, and don't want to, but yes, I do believe that the Reds have stockpiled far too many backs particularly. Over the past 3-4 years they seem to have tied up just about every back that played Qld schools and the waiting list for game time is horrendous. It really made a joke of the academy system and you can see why the ARU came down hard this year and said to all the franchises 'no school leavers please'. I hear the Brumbies were really grilled and put under pressure on the deal they did with Crook.
I agree, Jonno is a better 10 than 12 but how is he going to get time over Cooper. I do rate Taps as a player however as I previously said, I do think his days in super rugby are limited as there are others in front of him and his isn't all that big, but then again neither is Giteau and he seems to somehow hold down a test spot and get paid guzllions so there is always hope for taps. He is a great kid and if he fits in well I think we should see him off the bench this year a fair bit.
As for who is the better, Lance is a more completer rugby player for mine, about the same physique as Taps and they will both now be pushing each other for game time. Jonno also has a great kicking game obviously from his background as a 10.
I agree, Jonno is a better 10 than 12 but how is he going to get time over Cooper. I do rate Taps as a player however as I previously said, I do think his days in super rugby are limited as there are others in front of him and his isn't all that big, but then again neither is Giteau and he seems to somehow hold down a test spot and get paid guzllions so there is always hope for taps. He is a great kid and if he fits in well I think we should see him off the bench this year a fair bit.
As for who is the better, Lance is a more completer rugby player for mine, about the same physique as Taps and they will both now be pushing each other for game time. Jonno also has a great kicking game obviously from his background as a 10.
Red Heavy
Billy Sheehan (19)
After watching a lot of Jonno Lance over the last 4 years I believe he is best suited to 12 at a higher level despite been an outstanding 10 for his club. He loves to take on the line and has great strength in contact. Defensively he is also very strong.
In saying that he has limited exposure at 12 so it may take him some time to find his feet
In saying that he has limited exposure at 12 so it may take him some time to find his feet
I don't want to hijack this thread with a digression but the recent topic of young players not being able to get a shot reminds one of the great pity that we don't have an ARC.
I'm not talking about school leavers or even school players from the year before them. Those fellows should be playing Colts and, if they are good enough, being promoted to Grade after a while; but the likes of Lance and Tapuai around the country are not being catered for. Getting to 1st Grade within 2 or 3 years is a good achievement, but if there's no pathway to participating in rugby beyond grade for the best of the youngsters they will feel that they are getting lost between the cracks.
For these fellows getting into an academy is a very good thing, but they need more than that. They need competitions to play in.
I'm not talking about school leavers or even school players from the year before them. Those fellows should be playing Colts and, if they are good enough, being promoted to Grade after a while; but the likes of Lance and Tapuai around the country are not being catered for. Getting to 1st Grade within 2 or 3 years is a good achievement, but if there's no pathway to participating in rugby beyond grade for the best of the youngsters they will feel that they are getting lost between the cracks.
For these fellows getting into an academy is a very good thing, but they need more than that. They need competitions to play in.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I think the most potentially workable thing would be to replace the current random academy matches with an actual competition.
This wouldn't be profitable or be well followed but it WOULD be a step up and it wouldn't result in too many more academy games then what occurs currently.
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the berries
Guest
Well put, Lee Grant. you hit the nail on the head.
Currently the 3 eastern teams play each other home and away to produce 4 games per team and 6 games total and with 1 game a week it takes 6 rounds. All the professional academy guys and contracted Super players not needed for the weekend play in the games and they usually toss in some hard head club players as needed and a few amateur academy members.
Melbourne would make a home an away series of 6 games per team - or 12 games total, but there would be still only 6 rounds because there would be no byes.
Adding the Force would make it 8 games per team but the number of rounds it would take would increase to 10 because of byes.
But adding the Force would blow out travel and accommodation costs which was part of the ARC problem. So round and round we would go.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
I thought about this Lee, yes a theoretical Force A is obviously an expense that couldn't be avoided but if you made their away games correlate with the full Force's then all the resources, coaches and the like that have to come over anyway would surely slightly lessen the blow.
Also, to make the season longer one could say that the Reds and Waratahs could runs two academy sides each (say in theory their teams could be Brisbane, Sydney, Greater Qld Coast & Greater Western Sydney). Obviously NSW has much more depth then Qld but one could presume that most of the Brumbies academy would be playing in the Syd anyway.
I did a write up about it and worked out some of the theoretical kinks once, such a competition could coincide with Super rugby and be done in time for club rugby. I never published it because I doubt anyone outside theroar would read it and those guys are jerks.
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tranquility
Guest
This is a great video from the 2007 schoolboys. Really represents the potential of Rob Horne as he is a cut above, but I should also mention that Aidan Toua, Sam Whykes, Ben Tapuai and Rabbit are also standouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a78_o7Z9QxQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a78_o7Z9QxQ&feature=related
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Rothschild
Guest
For the past couple of years there have been mooting of a parallel super competition for our under 20's for the Oz and NZ super clubs.
So whenever the two teams play their u20 academy player tag along and play.
It’s a great idea and one that the ARU/NZRU should exploit - maybe there could be TV income - who knows.
As for academy players getting game time, my understanding is that any player not required for super senior duty plays club, well it’s certainly the case in NSW and ACT where all players are contracted to a club and are expected to play.
But Lee you are correct, they need more time on the grass and yes a reintro of the ARC is imperative. We have all seen just how good the ITM cup was this year.
The only reason(s) we can't do it here is the complete obstinence of some of the Sydney clubs DEMANDING it be done on a club basis (and their obvious inclusion) and the cost.
There must be some sponsor that can cover travel which would be the biggest cost. If it was done with a comprehensive mix of Sydney teams (4-6), Brisbane/SE Qld (4), Melb, ACT and Perth there must be a way of finding funding – IF it can be demonstrated that it could over time be similar to the ITM/NPC in popularity and TV viewing. For Christ sake, the A-League is surviving with their travel expenses, why can’t rugby – TV rights/sales – that’s all.
Format would be to shorten the premier club comp to finish by the end of May (as it is in NZ) and then all those good enough to be selected in a regional team play on – the rest watch (as it is in NZ). The NZ clubs don’t complain simply because they accept the FACT that the ITM/NPC tournament is their premier tournament. Clubs have no say – it’s all NZRU controlled and as soon as the ARU musters the balls to fully mandate a complete restructure of the suburban competitions in the major cities and instigate a national premier competition – (not based on clubs but on regions) the better rugby on the land of Oz will be.
Until the ARU grow a pair – we will forever be wallowing in this mire of uncertainty and player idleness.
So whenever the two teams play their u20 academy player tag along and play.
It’s a great idea and one that the ARU/NZRU should exploit - maybe there could be TV income - who knows.
As for academy players getting game time, my understanding is that any player not required for super senior duty plays club, well it’s certainly the case in NSW and ACT where all players are contracted to a club and are expected to play.
But Lee you are correct, they need more time on the grass and yes a reintro of the ARC is imperative. We have all seen just how good the ITM cup was this year.
The only reason(s) we can't do it here is the complete obstinence of some of the Sydney clubs DEMANDING it be done on a club basis (and their obvious inclusion) and the cost.
There must be some sponsor that can cover travel which would be the biggest cost. If it was done with a comprehensive mix of Sydney teams (4-6), Brisbane/SE Qld (4), Melb, ACT and Perth there must be a way of finding funding – IF it can be demonstrated that it could over time be similar to the ITM/NPC in popularity and TV viewing. For Christ sake, the A-League is surviving with their travel expenses, why can’t rugby – TV rights/sales – that’s all.
Format would be to shorten the premier club comp to finish by the end of May (as it is in NZ) and then all those good enough to be selected in a regional team play on – the rest watch (as it is in NZ). The NZ clubs don’t complain simply because they accept the FACT that the ITM/NPC tournament is their premier tournament. Clubs have no say – it’s all NZRU controlled and as soon as the ARU musters the balls to fully mandate a complete restructure of the suburban competitions in the major cities and instigate a national premier competition – (not based on clubs but on regions) the better rugby on the land of Oz will be.
Until the ARU grow a pair – we will forever be wallowing in this mire of uncertainty and player idleness.
T
TheTruth
Guest
Horne was special - but correct me if i'm wrong that JOC (James O'Connor) couldn't make the run on schoolboys side - wow the selctors in hindsight sure got it wrong
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Rothschild
Guest
That's correct and he nearly cost us the game against NZ when he did an ill timed clearing kick from his own line - 30 secs to go - didn't find touch and NZ ran it back and nearly scored in the corner. It's slipped my mind the player that made the brilliant try saving tackle. Probably never heard of again!!
As for selectors getting it wrong - I don't think so as the others at that time were genuinely playing better. His initial rise and media hooha can be put down to a great marketing and promotional campaign by his father and a small bit by his agent at the time - but the rest is history. I just would have loved to see how Taps and Jonno Lance would have gone with the same leg up.
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Rothschild
Guest
jesus H - any chance you could read what I said again, this time actually understanding what I said before you fly off the handle.
I didn't say that - read my comment again. Gees if you guys can't even read the most basic of comments how can you make objective and educated comments yourself.
I said i would love to see what would have happened if they had the same opportunity.
dobduff11
Trevor Allan (34)
Correct me if im wrong but Taps and Horne were both standout schoolboys, as you can see from the video they were the most dominant backs.
JOC (James O'Connor) was not going to displace Taps so they ran him at fullback in the games against NZ and England from the bench. Toua was a more accomplished player at the time and was lethal in attack so he was put at 15 starting all three games.
Jono lance was captain of the A schoolboys team so he was also a good player also but not able to play 10 or 12 because of To'omua and Tapuai
Im glad JOC (James O'Connor) got the leg up because although he was a bench player for AUS he was still probably the most devastating attacking player in the GPS that year. The time he has spent with the force has moulded him well and he is finally becoming a more consistent player. If taps had the same game time I think he would have done well with maybe not quite the same hype.
When JOC (James O'Connor) was 18 Total Rugby did a feature on him and his fame grew a bit from that aswell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_O5o1d0FIA
His dad seems like a smart guy
JOC (James O'Connor) was not going to displace Taps so they ran him at fullback in the games against NZ and England from the bench. Toua was a more accomplished player at the time and was lethal in attack so he was put at 15 starting all three games.
Jono lance was captain of the A schoolboys team so he was also a good player also but not able to play 10 or 12 because of To'omua and Tapuai
Im glad JOC (James O'Connor) got the leg up because although he was a bench player for AUS he was still probably the most devastating attacking player in the GPS that year. The time he has spent with the force has moulded him well and he is finally becoming a more consistent player. If taps had the same game time I think he would have done well with maybe not quite the same hype.
When JOC (James O'Connor) was 18 Total Rugby did a feature on him and his fame grew a bit from that aswell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_O5o1d0FIA
His dad seems like a smart guy
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