Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2016

[Silverado]

1977 NSW I
1. John MATHESON, Pennant Hills HS, CHS
2. Anthony RYAN, St Ignatius' College, AAGPS*
3. Brad ALLAN (CAPT), Ku-ring-gai HS, CHS
4. Michael MAXWELL, Cranbrook, CAS*
5. Warwick MELROSE, Matraville HS, CHS*
6. Ian MILLER, Killarney Heights HS, CHS*
7. Richard VAUGHAN, Knox Grammar School, CAS
8. James McINNERNEY, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS
9. Daryl LESTER, Matraville HS, CHS
10. Michael HAWKER (VC), Shore, AAGPS
11. Peter McPHERSON, Waratah HS, CHS*
12. Lloyd WALKER, Matraville HS, CHS
13. Gary ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
14. John MAGUIRE, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS*
15. John RAUCH, Fort St BHS, CHS
16. Dominic VAUGHAN, Marist Bros Hamilton, CCC*
17. David WOODCOCK, Singleton HS, CHS
18. Martin BULL, Balgowlah BHS, CHS
19. Tony MELROSE, Northmead HS, CHS*
20. Mark CAMERON, Shore, AAGPS
Manager . Br. Brian MURPHY, Waverley College,
Coach . Brian PEACE, Ministry of Education,


1977 NSW II
1. John HANCOCK, St Ignatius' College, AAGPS*
2. Edward JONES, Matraville HS, CHS
3. Wayne ERIKSON, Fort St BHS, CHS
4. George GAVALAS, Homebush BHS, CHS*
5. Stephen CUTLER, Knox Grammar School, CAS
6. Paul DELLAMARTA, Matraville HS, CHS
7. Phillip BARLOW, Randwick BHS, CHS
8. Grant MOULD, Matraville HS, CHS
9. Michael EGAN, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS*
10. Mark ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
11. Chris REW, The King's School, AAGPS
12. Ian WALTON, Hurlstone Ag College, CHS
13. Matthew STREET, Cranbrook, CAS
14. Phillip TUCK, Knox Grammar School, CAS*
15. Glen ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
16. Graham ENDEAN, Epping BHS, CHS
17. John LUANI, Newington College, AAGPS
18. Anthony FLITCROFT, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS
19. Mark MUNRO, Waverley College, CAS
20. Stephen KERR, Balmain HS, CHS*
Manager . Stephen FORTY, Punchbowl HS, CHS
Coach . Earl FLANDERS, Killara HS, CHS

* Australian Schoolboys Rep

Interesting to see 23 CHS players out of 40. How the times have changed. The Australian Schoolboys were pretty red hot that year too, touring British Isles and winning all 16 games and scoring more than 100 tries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

Would be interested to see points tally by individual for the national championships....

Reckon Jackson mohi would be up there despite no game time in the final

matraville must have been quite the side in 77

How were Souths back in the 70s ... Something has clearly changed.

I know back in the 80s sydney high was playing mid week rugby games

Junior rugby wasn't as dominant and don't recall rep teams the way they exist today from under 12s onwards

Oh well sure is a massive change in make up of Aussie schoolboys comparing 2016 to 1977 ... And I suspect Humpty numpty can't be put back together

 

[Bob_the_Builder]

With all the talk about over selection can we please remember that QLD 1 did actually beat the eventual winners NSW II.
Also I think the selectors would have taken into account the weather conditions (rightly or wrongly).

On another note Queensland uniforms look terrible with a Polo shirt, shorts and a hoodie compared to the other states such NSW.

And Vic beat QLD 1 42 to 16 in perfect conditions and still only got 2 in schoolboys and 2 in the babaas.

 

[formerflanker]

1977 NSW I
1. John MATHESON, Pennant Hills HS, CHS
2. Anthony RYAN, St Ignatius' College, AAGPS*
3. Brad ALLAN (CAPT), Ku-ring-gai HS, CHS
4. Michael MAXWELL, Cranbrook, CAS*
5. Warwick MELROSE, Matraville HS, CHS*
6. Ian MILLER, Killarney Heights HS, CHS*
7. Richard VAUGHAN, Knox Grammar School, CAS
8. James McINNERNEY, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS
9. Daryl LESTER, Matraville HS, CHS
10. Michael HAWKER (VC), Shore, AAGPS
11. Peter McPHERSON, Waratah HS, CHS*
12. Lloyd WALKER, Matraville HS, CHS
13. Gary ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
14. John MAGUIRE, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS*
15. John RAUCH, Fort St BHS, CHS
16. Dominic VAUGHAN, Marist Bros Hamilton, CCC*
17. David WOODCOCK, Singleton HS, CHS
18. Martin BULL, Balgowlah BHS, CHS
19. Tony MELROSE, Northmead HS, CHS*
20. Mark CAMERON, Shore, AAGPS
Manager . Br. Brian MURPHY, Waverley College,
Coach . Brian PEACE, Ministry of Education,


1977 NSW II
1. John HANCOCK, St Ignatius' College, AAGPS*
2. Edward JONES, Matraville HS, CHS
3. Wayne ERIKSON, Fort St BHS, CHS
4. George GAVALAS, Homebush BHS, CHS*
5. Stephen CUTLER, Knox Grammar School, CAS
6. Paul DELLAMARTA, Matraville HS, CHS
7. Phillip BARLOW, Randwick BHS, CHS
8. Grant MOULD, Matraville HS, CHS
9. Michael EGAN, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS*
10. Mark ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
11. Chris REW, The King's School, AAGPS
12. Ian WALTON, Hurlstone Ag College, CHS
13. Matthew STREET, Cranbrook, CAS
14. Phillip TUCK, Knox Grammar School, CAS*
15. Glen ELLA, Matraville HS, CHS*
16. Graham ENDEAN, Epping BHS, CHS
17. John LUANI, Newington College, AAGPS
18. Anthony FLITCROFT, St Joseph’s College, AAGPS
19. Mark MUNRO, Waverley College, CAS
20. Stephen KERR, Balmain HS, CHS*
Manager . Stephen FORTY, Punchbowl HS, CHS
Coach . Earl FLANDERS, Killara HS, CHS

* Australian Schoolboys Rep

Thanks HJ. A wonderful walk down memory lane with so many of those great names.

 

[Silverado]

Would be interested to see points tally by individual for the national championships..

Reckon Jackson mohi would be up there despite no game time in the final

matraville must have been quite the side in 77

How were Souths back in the 70s . Something has clearly changed.

I know back in the 80s sydney high was playing mid week rugby games

Junior rugby wasn't as dominant and don't recall rep teams the way they exist today from under 12s onwards

Oh well sure is a massive change in make up of Aussie schoolboys comparing 2016 to 1977 . And I suspect Humpty numpty can't be put back together

Yeah Matraville was quite the production line in those days. Randwick Boys High had great teams too. I went to High when we played CHS onWednesday and GPS on Saturday. In those days we were competitive in both, but boy has that changed. Humpy has left the building


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hugh Jarse]

For those wanting to have a go at the Selectors, G&GR archives contain these references as a bit of background on two of them:

Glen Cronan is more than equipped to select and coach. If a little research is done, you would find that Mr Cronan was MIC Rugby @ Nudgee and has now moved to Ipswich Grammer. A fine man, a good man and has the passion of Rugby running through his veins. I respect his view on players immensely and he has tremendous support from lads that he has had dealings with. More equipped as a selector than some others. I hope that is a help for you?

I don't know Mr Cronan but was looking up some old ASRU Newsletters this morning and found out that he has been involved for yonks as manager of Oz Schools and no doubt as a selector in that time.

That makes him qualified in my eyes — and I hope that nobody calls into question the selection credentials of Pat Langtry.

Don't go there.

Thoughts on being passed over for national Schoolboys.
This gem from the NZ Herald article on Sir Richie GOAT.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10897466

"Mustchin says his father, Bryan, the club's former development officer, enticed McCaw to the Christchurch club as a colts player. McCaw, from Hakataramea Valley in the South Canterbury-North Otago border region, was headed to Lincoln University on a rugby scholarship. Bryan Mustchin attended the 1998 national schoolboy final at Lancaster Park to scout Rotorua Boys High captain Craig Newby, who was rumoured to be Christchurch-bound.
Instead, he spied McCaw for their opponents Otago Boys High, and while the national school selectors overlooked the future legend, Bryan Mustchin had spotted his man, and contact was made. "
So we now have confirmation that both Nobody* and the GOAT* were not wanted by National Schoolboy Selectors. No shame in being overlooked by the National Schoolboy selectors and not making Aust Schoolboys or Aust Barbarians. It could even be said this is a badge of honour.


*Nobody's Perfect - John Eales
GOAT Greatest Of All Times - Richie McCaw.


Finally this old gem:

The thing about selection is that as boys go higher there are more quality players vying for possibly the one spot, and depending on what the selectors or coaches are specifically looking for in a player will see many excellent rugby players miss out in that instance, and to be fair that is absolutely ok.

If a coach wants a certain type of player then he should have him. In terms of oz schools payers not going all the way, doesn't mean the selectors are wrong or biased, it just means that at that point in time, they were the best available to them.

Good players stop playing after school, weaker payers grow and develop and keep playing, it doesn't mean selection is wrong.


If you have heard Eric Rush the former all black speak he tells a great story about when he was growing up he always trialled but never got picked. His father would always say " don't worry because its just one blokes opinion, maybe the next guy will think differently".

When he excitedly phoned his father to tell him he had been selected for the all blacks, his father congratulated him, but reminded him its just one blokes opinion, don't get a big head, because the next bloke may not like you. That's my spin on selection, if you play well, sooner or later some one is going to see your skills suiting his game plan and you're in, doesn't mean everyone else was wrong.

 

[CatchnPass]

Loved that story. Says a lot about the man and the irresistible force that is NZ rugby. If missing school's selection resulted in that sort of loyalty and humility for all, then you'd almost want your boy to miss out.

 

[Rachet_84]

Team:
Qld I, 8 (finished 6th)
ACT, 5 (finished 7th)
NSW I, 5 (finished 2nd)
NSW II, 3 (Winner)
Victoria, 2 (finished 4th)
Combined States, 1 (finished 3rd)
Qld II, 1 (finished 5th)


That is the biggest f@$k-up I've seen in schoolboys reps. There is a national champs and the national champs - NSW II , along with the runners-up NSW I , get less players then the team that come second last - ACT . Even worse you get a team that finished 3rd last and they get more !!

There is no other reasonable hypothesis , the teams selected has been undertaken by coaches who are aligned with ACT & QLD. Guess what as we know both coaches from the two Aus teams come from ACT & QLD.

 

[Crackerjack]

As a punter who got out out to Iggies for three of the days this week, I just loved that the Tournament was held, that the boys involved had a cracking week (effectively a "tour" whether they were locals, from out of SYD, or from interstate), and undoubtedly that the boys would've left all the richer for the experience. No question, irrespective final selection results, they'll not quickly forget the week they've just had. Not a lot of sports could hold a candle to that!

 

[Crackerjack]

As (possibly) a last act and deed on this particular 2016 thread, wanted to give a shout out and a well done and goodonya to Uncle Lee Grant for his indefatigable work this week encouraging, cajoling, even cursing on occasion to get all the Nationals details down and into the Blog for posterity.
Mate, your work ethic and all 'round enthusiasm is something that should be celebrated.
Kudos you!

 

[sidesteppa]

QLD II score and hold out to beat QLD I in a mud pit on saturday.

 

[Quick Hands]

Amazing that all of this breaks down to it Bill Pulvers fault. The ARU does not control nor have any appointment of State or Australian Schools sides. If it did perhaps there would be more rigour and science to the selection bias apparent in this years teams. In fact, given the next pathways are through colts and then potentially Super franchise 20's and possibly Australian 20's, maybe the selection panels could be made up of professional coaches who know what they are looking for rather than being blinkered by State or public vs private bias. What is for sure is that vested interest at schools level by selectors and in some cases the appointment of coaches to positions beyond their skill level is detrimental to the game at this level. Many of these boys aspire to professional careers in rugby, yet we waste spots on league players and on favourites of selectors. I wish that Bill Pulver and the ARU were in charge. I would create allot more clarity than this process has produced.

No, it's not Bill Pulver's fault that we've gone from having 23 out of 40 players coming from CHS (state) schools in 1977 to 6 out of 46 in 2016. It is however the ARU and the NSWRU who have presided over the game who have allowed the circumstances to exist where this is the result (see also a similar decline in junior club rugby).

Pulver wants to do something about it, but it's going to be a long road back. Guys like Earl Flanders have long since retired from teaching and there's nowhere near as many teacher/coaches with a rugby affiliation in state schools as there used to be. Have a look at the CHS schools listed in post #356 - you'd be lucky if more than one or two of them even had a rugby team anymore.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

All this talk of selections, i would be interested to know how many of this years U20s Aussie squad actually played Aussie Schoolboys back in their day. Is anybody privy to this sort of information? As people have said, the reset button gets pushed on 1 Jan 2017 and the cream rises to the top in club land.

Based on the AUS U20 v NZL U20 Squad for Bond
1. Faalelie Sione
2. Joshua Taylor
3. Tyrel Lomax
4. Harry Hockings
5. Ryan McCauley
6. Angus Scott-Young
7. Maclean Jones (C)
8. Harley Fox
9. Moses Sorovi
10. Mack Mason
11. Joey Fittock
12. Jordan Jackson-Hope
13. Liam Jurd
14. Ah-Mu Tuimalealifano
15. Jack Maddocks
16. Jordan Uelese
17. Vunipola Fifita
18. Shambackler Vui
19. Rob Leota
20. Ikapote Tupai
21. Angus Fowler
22. Billy Gray
23. Sione Tuipolotu

Announced in the 2016 Squad but joined Team Rehab before playing
Alex Mafi, Declan Moore, Latu Latinipulu, Max Girdler

Joined the Squad later (there may be others)
Simon Kennewell, Richie Asiata, Tom Molloy, Ta Hosea, Ed Craig, James Tuttle, Lukhan Tui, Campbell Magnay, Izack Rodda, Liam Wright, Nick Jooste, Harry Chapman, Harry Nucifora

Bear in mind that the 2016 Under 20's covers the Born in 1996 (mostly) and some from the Born in 1997 cohort. This would typically be Class of 2013 (Qld only) , mostly Class of 2014 and some Class of 2015.
There was no Aust A/Barbarians team announced in 2014.

2013 Australian Schoolboys
Alex Mafi, Moses Sorovi, Liam Jurd, James Tuttle, Maclean Jones

2013 Australia A
Campbell Magnay (Selected for Aust UK Tour but DNP due injury)

2014 Schoolboys (31 Aust Schoolboys were selected in 2014 incl 4 Rehab/DNP)
Harley Fox, Joey Fittock, Jordan Jackson-Hope, Ah-Mu Tuimalealifano, Vunipola Fifita, Shambackler Vui, Sione Tuipolotu, Izack Rodda (Injury Withdrawal), Ed Craig, Richie Asiata

2015 Schoolboys (26 Aust Schoolboys incl 3 Rehab/DNP)
Harry Hockings, Ryan McCauley, Nick Jooste (Late call up), Max Girdler, Rob Leota, Simon Kennewell, Harry Chapman (Injury Withdrawal)

Highest Honours for the Non ASRU (at School, and in 2015 where known)
Joshua Taylor, 2014 Qld I, 2015 Bond Prem Colts
Declan Moore, 2014 NSW II, 2015 Sydney Stars NRC
Latu Latinipulu, 2014 GPS, 2015 Randwick 1st Grade
Jack Maddocks, 2014 3rd XV Scots College, 2015 Eastern Suburbs 1st Grade
Harry Nucifora, 2014 Qld I, 2015 U20, 2015 NRC Qld Country
Angus Scott-Young, 2014 Qld II, 2015 Qld U20 WTS
Lukhan Tui, 2014 CS Call up, 2015 Aust U20, 2015 Reds Dev Squad
Tom Molloy, 2014 Combined States, 2015 Randwick Colts
Angus Fowler, Prem Colts
Liam Wright, 2014 ACGS 1st XV
Ikapote Tupai, 2013 Vic Schoolboys
Ta Hosea, 2013 Vic Schoolboys
Mack Mason, 2012 Qld I U16, 2015 Mungo Club U20
Tyrel Lomax, 2013 ACT Schools, 2015 Vikings NRC
Faalelie Sione, 2013 ACT Schools
Jordan Uelese, 2015 Melbourne Rising NRC
Billy Gray, 2014 Vic Schoolboys, 2015 Melbourne Rising NRC

Summary
23 have represented ASRU.
17 have not represented ASRU. Most of these played at a very high level in their first year of Club Rugby, often higher than most of the former ASRU Representatives.
Nearly all attended one or more U18 National Schoolboy Championships.
These figures are similar for previous years Aust U20's.

 

[Frosty's dad]

In all honesty, i thought he looked out of his depth at the NSW trials and was amazed he got in over his partner Rasch from CAS. Selectors must see something though so i hope he proves us all wrong and plays well for the squad. Congrats to him.

 

[sidelineview]

And Vic beat QLD 1 42 to 16 in perfect conditions and still only got 2 in schoolboys and 2 in the babaas.

But then NSW2 beat Victoria; Qld 1 beat NSW 2, and then NSW2 won it overall.

And as far as the selections are concerned I have no idea what personal qualities each individual player is able to bring to the team. Leadership qualities; being a good team player on and off the field; being an inspiration to his team mates; good under pressure, taking the right options in a game ... etc etc.
It is important given the player has the necessary talent to begin with.
Combined States were a good example of a team that gelled and showed a great team spirit; and that was reflected on the scoreboard.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

I must say curious how the selectors go about it .... it strikes me that a sensible way would be to have each selector focusing on saying narrowly the best 9 and 10, another finding best front rowers

but no idea how it actually works

oh well even at the highest levels of league and union, with all the stats available ... they struggle to get selections right

I do love the stories of kids overlooked that punch on

ticker mate , ticker

you get knocked down, you get back up ... simple

 

[OAUI]

Pulver as did his predecessor gets the blame for all that ills us. In this regard I think we are the harshest of critics. No doubt the decline in school rugby outside private schools (in NSW) is very sad for the game and ARU can wear the blame but we never had the funds that League and AFL have at the disposal to promote in this market.



As for ARU having no input into Australian Schools selections - not so quick to agree. Adrian Thompson (as possibly he should be) is close to the discussion as the identified ARU representative. He must be highlighting to the selectors, players from these teams, ARU's have earmarked for U20s or invested time and resources in through ARU junior development. I also think that the number QLD and A.C.T. selections are influenced by the ARU where their influence with private school rugby (and junior competitions) is much stronger than in NSW. (Conspiracy theory being that NSW gets punished in selections for keeping ARU at arms length or ARU can point to selections from other states as to the benefit of their involvement)



Any suggestion form outside this competition be used in the case of QLD selections can't hold water when their season has yet to get underway ?


Regarding comments about NSW 1 coaches. I have and sure we all have seen plenty of talented / quality sides have that one shocker of a game that was out of the form. NSW 1 unfortunately left it till it really mattered. NSW 2 did seem to have a strategy, (maybe all credit to them) one seemed to be to use speedsters Rixon (before being injured) and McTaggert to run at Tyrone in particular to great effect in the first try. Tyrone another high profile NSW player not selected though stood out in the pool games. Rixon's non selection in the top side, selectors have a case to answer surely.

 

[redblack]

^^^ In regards to NSW 1 their best moments were against ACT (last 15 minutes) and CS (first half) where they displayed a great sense of urgency and worked as a team.Quick turnover ball and their finishers saw plenty of ball. From there the game plan became very mundane and smart coached sides adjusted accordingly.Congratulations to all who competed, it is just one step in life and no-one can take away the history of you competing in the 2016 National Schools Championships. Study hard and enjoy your rugby.
Next step colts lads, it will be a different experience yet again.

 

[Lee Grant]

I've got no problems with the selections.

People who think that players have been dudded because more lads were chosen from Team A than from Team B - yet Team B had better results - are way off the mark.

Team A could have a core of exceptional players but the remainder are not.

Team B could have players that are not stellar but gelled better as a team.

Qld II and NSW II played in the final ten years ago but there was no way that Quade Cooper and Kurtley Beale (playing in the Ones) and others, were going to miss out just because both Twos' sides played better as a team.

When I've said that a few times in the past, or something like it, people have replied that the selectors should pick the best team players.

Well, how do you know that an exceptional player is not also a good team player - but he happened to be in a side that didn't play to the potential that they had? It's not that easy.

Objectors, especially family members and adherents of a school who had a player overlooked, will quote the stats, as they do most years, to prove that selectors are biased, but they prove nothing, except to themselves.

They see things in black and white absolutes, dare I say it: without shades of grey.

Selectors don't think of results so much in themselves but in how players contributed with their rugby attributes as best they could in the team they were in.

And when they pick a squad they have to construct a harmony of player attributes - and inevitably some players miss out because one or two others may already have those facets, and perhaps other ones as well.

That said - how come Victoria didn't get more players chosen you selectors?

Obvious bias I say.

Only kidding.
.

 

[bloodred]

Well said Lee, restore reason. It's been 12 years since I was at school and I remember the chaos then over selections in the ensuing years. Had a look yesterday and I see it all happening again. thought George Grant was gunna have heart attack