T
TOCC
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So, what's the solution for the Wallabies scrum, Cheika doesn't focus on the set piece going by what was played at the Tahs, how will that translate to test level.. Is foley still an option?
Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?
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Peter Johnson (47)
Sorry, my screen and PC is playing up. I keep seeing words like kicking and scrum appear on the screen.
Am I in the jakeball or 6 nations thread?
I have to say its refreshing to see the comments above. IMHO the game needs to showcase all its elements to show off what it really about, why it is different than all other sports, and why its a good entertaining sport that appeals to a good cross section of people, thin, fat or in-between with diverse skills.
The sooner we let go of the running obsession the better!
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/w...ey-for-key-wallabies-job-20150210-13az5j.html
that seems to be what Cheika wants. I really hope Foley gets on board. From memory, the last time the Wallabies scrum dominated on a trip to the Northern Hemisphere was under Foley.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Good. Foley is an an excellent set piece coach. You only have to look at the job he previously did with the Wallabies and what he's since done with an unfashionable pack at the Force to know that he's got some pedigree. Our best chance of taking the chocolates later this year is Cheika, Foley and Larkham working together.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Apparently he brought in Ledesma just for the Tahs........
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
The problem is that there is a misconception out there with what running rugby or ball in hand rugby, or whatever one wants to call actually is.
What is isn't, and never was, is run the ball from everywhere no matter what the circumstance. This concept is a fantasy in the minds of a section of the rugby public.
Randwick were the best exponents of running rugby, but it was never "run it from anywhere no matter what the circumstance". Their rugby was built on dominant forward packs who could scrum, ruck and maul better than anyone. They also knew not only how to kick, but more importantly when to kick and why to kick. So Randwick teams did kick, but when they did it was usually the right circumstance and the kick was usually well executed. Both Mark Ella and David Campese for example had excellent kicking techniques and knew when it was the right option.
These attributes, along with a mindset to play aggressive, attacking rugby was the foundation of their success. They ran the ball from their goal line or inside the 22 plenty of times, but only when it was the right option - broken field running, players in support behind the ball etc. If the running option wasn't on, they'd hit it up through the forwards and/or kick long downfield for touch.
Alas, it seems that many of those who misunderstand the concept are now coaching and/or selecting junior and/or school rep teams. So they pick tight forwards based on their skills around the park more than set piece ability and backs who run it all the time who may or may not possess any sort of kicking game.
This works at the junior and school level, particuarly when the players are in a super club team or a scholarshipped school team. They get by with size and strength not technique in the forwards and they can run it from anywhere in the backs because they're bigger and stronger than their opponents. If they get caught they can usually get themselves out of trouble. However, at senior level you can't get away with this stuff.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Yes, a thousand times yes. Well said Quick Hands. Randwick at their peak were the most watchable and successful rugby team in club land. Heck, they were pretty handy against rep sides too. Their footy was exciting and attacking, but smart too. The great Wallaby and NSW teams those Wicks players contributed to played a pretty fantastic style as well. It was a mindset and a vision for how they thought the game should be played -- with attacking intent, at pace and with a high skill level. That'll do me.
T
TOCC
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Apparently the Reds in 2014 cleared their ball from from the scrum 88.33% of the time, the highest of any Australian or New Zealand team... Brumbies were 75.22% which was statistically the worst scrum in super rugby..
It'll be interesting to see how it goes in 2015 with the Reds down their THP(Holmes) and Simmons...
If Foley isn't interested then give Nick Stiles a look in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It'll be interesting to see how it goes in 2015 with the Reds down their THP(Holmes) and Simmons...
If Foley isn't interested then give Nick Stiles a look in.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Let's not get too carried away with the Randwick legend.
They deserved the success they achieved, in one sense virtue was its own reward. They played the sort of game that a lot of players wanted to be part of, and it was successful.
Because it was successful, and good to be part of, the Randwick club got more than its share of good young players which in turn bolstered that success even further.
I worked with a Randwick under 21 player (many years ago!), and what struck me more than anything else was that they had a lot of competition for places in the team, unlike my club in those days, we would struggle to put a 15 on the park some Saturdays.
They deserved the success they achieved, in one sense virtue was its own reward. They played the sort of game that a lot of players wanted to be part of, and it was successful.
Because it was successful, and good to be part of, the Randwick club got more than its share of good young players which in turn bolstered that success even further.
I worked with a Randwick under 21 player (many years ago!), and what struck me more than anything else was that they had a lot of competition for places in the team, unlike my club in those days, we would struggle to put a 15 on the park some Saturdays.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I'm not sure how anything you've said negates the proposition that the Wicks built their success on first and foremost a game plan, selecting players who could deliver on that plan and then training accordingly. The sustained success came from the virtuous cycle that the initial premierships created, yes, but surely that isn't a "bad" thing. I don't even support Randwick but I have to sit back and admire the game they played and how they built it.
If Cheika can take all that he learned at the Wicks and translate it into the Wallabies, then I think we'll be in reasonable shape. The question is whether there is enough time to do it before the RWC this year.
If Cheika can take all that he learned at the Wicks and translate it into the Wallabies, then I think we'll be in reasonable shape. The question is whether there is enough time to do it before the RWC this year.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I will try to spell it out. Firstly, Randwick had a good catchment, they were able to pick and choose amongst the best players in Sydney, that is a slightly different situation than the Wallabies face. They are up against the best players in the world.
Secondly, you will note that Randwick no longer plays the Randwick game.
Times have changed, we have to do the best we can with the limited and inadequate resources we have. Randwick could pretty much pick and choose in their heyday.
Randwick no longer plays differently from all the other teams in the Shute Shield, and they have not won the comp for years and years. The most successful team happens to be the one that has a virtual monopoly on the best talent from GPS schools, plus other advantages that mean that a player like Israel Folau is theoretically available to play for them. There is nothing distinctive about their style, they tend to win because they have the greatest player depth.
Spot the differences?
Secondly, you will note that Randwick no longer plays the Randwick game.
Times have changed, we have to do the best we can with the limited and inadequate resources we have. Randwick could pretty much pick and choose in their heyday.
Randwick no longer plays differently from all the other teams in the Shute Shield, and they have not won the comp for years and years. The most successful team happens to be the one that has a virtual monopoly on the best talent from GPS schools, plus other advantages that mean that a player like Israel Folau is theoretically available to play for them. There is nothing distinctive about their style, they tend to win because they have the greatest player depth.
Spot the differences?
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Nope, not buying it. There are enough good players in our system to put together a competitive squad. What is required is a cogent game plan and a selection policy that backs that plan up (i.e. picking the right player in the right position). I think Cheika (and Link before him) have/had the right game plan and a style that is not only attractive to watch but can also win test matches.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The big thing that Randwick always had in their "running" game that neither the Tahs or the Wallabies (especially the Wallabies) have had for many years is a genuine big accurate boot at 15 and 10, which gave them an effective plan B for a territory based game and a solid exit strategy. In fact in the old days when you could kick the ball dead in goal from general play I remember seeing Campo kick it dead from his own 22, the ultimate running player remains one of the biggest kickers I can remember.
The last genuine big boot at the Tahs was the intercept king Peter Hewat and Matt Burke.
Mogg may well be able to fill the role for the Wallabies, and he is the only one in the super sides I have seen reliably perform the skill. I hope Hunt learnt better kicking skills in the AFL than Folau did.
For mine this is the big fundamental flaw that hasn't been discussed, the lack of balance and any real big reliable kicking options. We have discussed the scrum and lineout endlessly, and yes they are very important, but I feel this skill deficit is just as important.
The last genuine big boot at the Tahs was the intercept king Peter Hewat and Matt Burke.
Mogg may well be able to fill the role for the Wallabies, and he is the only one in the super sides I have seen reliably perform the skill. I hope Hunt learnt better kicking skills in the AFL than Folau did.
For mine this is the big fundamental flaw that hasn't been discussed, the lack of balance and any real big reliable kicking options. We have discussed the scrum and lineout endlessly, and yes they are very important, but I feel this skill deficit is just as important.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Do you think the changes in coaching might have had a bit of an impact on the "running game". Also in the last few Shute outing I saw the Randwick pack was getting owned and there was no real platform for the "Randwick plan." I have no doubt the constriction in player talent we have seen across the Shute as all the top players are captured into Super Squads has played a big role.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Chris Latham was the last guy we had with the booming boot from the back. Wouldn't mind having someone like him in the team right now.
Highlander35
Andrew Slack (58)
Has there been anything more on Gerrard to the Tahs?
None at all. He might have just been at a couple of early sessions for fitness. I certainly haven't heard anything further or seen him at any of the trials.
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