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Coal Seam Gas Mining

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Cutter, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    I don't know how much anyone knows about this, but there is a good documentary about its effects in the US called Gasland (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/). Watch it if you can, it's a frightening example of political opportunism, corporate greed and the little guy being screwed. In particular, this type of mining, where they use a technique called fracking to release the gas, contaminates aquifers.

    As it happens, the same thing is now happening across Queensland and, increasingly, in NSW. The driest continent on earth is allowing it's underground water supplies to be poisoned and used in enormous quantities. Of course, the usual order of events is being carried out. The mainstream media reports on it a little bit but only from a soundbite perspective. Gillard is taking the traditional liberal/national position, Tony Abbott has done his traditional policy backflip already and away we go.

    Interestingly, Barnaby Joyce and Bill Heffernan oppose it as, of course, do the Greens. Given Gillard's position and Abbott flip flops like a fish in a boat, this might be an issue that brings rural voters to the Greens. It is actually that big.

    GetUp (yes, that insidious organisation that does nothing good for anyone), thinks we need to be concerned about it and that we shouldn't allow any more approvals until we know a bit more about it. So too do Government science agencies http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-27/gillard-bligh-unveil-coal-seam-gas-expansion/2734636.

    http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/coal-seam-gas/petition/stop-coal-seam-gas

  2. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Not sure if this has the capacity to bring voters to the Greens. They aren't exactly pro-farming either.
  3. Jnor Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Hasn't all the talk in these communities been of alliances between the farming communities and the greens, as unlikely as they seem? Whether that translates to votes will depend on what specific policies the other parties bring. If the Greens are the only party prepared to limit or stop coal seam gas then I'm sure they'll win some votes from farmers and landowners.
  4. chasmac Dave Cowper (27)

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    Yes it has been a case of " My enemies enemies are my friends." Not happy bedfellows. My view is that the Federals will need to pass legislation to give them the power to stop the miners. The states do not have the will power and need the money.
    It seems that Abbott doesn't want to alienate miners or farmers, he will need to decide who he is going to back. If he doesn't then he will lose the support of both.
    Gillard will just get her instructions from Bob Brown. Miners will be blocked and Farmers will have to plant native vegetation and become park wardens for the Greater Bilby and the Western Barred Bandicoot.
  5. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Well that would be right if it wasn't demonstrably wrong. She's already come out in support of Coal Seam Gas Mining.
  6. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Allow Artesian basin to be poisoned (based on what we currently know CSGM does) or vote for greens? It seems a pretty easy choice to me. Then again, humans are far from rational beings.
    Ruggo likes this.
  7. Aussie D Dick Tooth (41)

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    There was a great 4Corners program on this earlier this year. The problem is not so much the coal seam gas extraction but the fracking and the fact the industry is largely unregulated (I would love to know which party deregulated the industry as this industry previously had some of the toughest regulations particularly in reference to the great artesian basin).
  8. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...d-to-mining-20110817-1ixpe.html#ixzz1VKaTKyCk

  9. chasmac Dave Cowper (27)

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    Fair call. Is this support unanimous or is it geographically based? Legitimate question, I'm not taking the piss.
  10. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Who knows. It might depend who is behind the mine, what electorate it's in etc etc. She's differentiated herself from the Greens though. Abbott is still flip flopping.
  11. chasmac Dave Cowper (27)

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    Looks like the miners will get the upper hand in this issue then. Unless Abbott introduces a bill which is Green friendly. That would be seriously interesting politics..
  12. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Which is why I posted the link to the GetUp petition.
  13. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Abbott isn't quite 'flip flopping' as you say. He tempered is initial position (being that there should be no allowance of mining on private land), to no allowance of mining in agriculturally rich land (or our 'food basins'). I thought you would agree with this?
  14. Nusadan Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Like the analogy re little boy who ate too much chocolate cake.

    Having worked in both mining and agricultural industries, I would support a moratorium on 'fracking' as we have abundant of resources elsewhere to use other methods for the time being, and with continually developing extraction technology, it wouldn't be too hard to guess that we would be able to do away with fracking in the not too distant future.
    suckerforred and Bowside like this.
  15. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Have a look at this - it really is terrifying. Look up Gaslands, a US documentary, as well.

    [video=youtube;a6DCJZ2NcbI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=a6DCJZ2NcbI[/video]
  16. Mr Doug Dick Tooth (41)

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    Cutter, in the interests of "truth and honesty":I heard an interview on ABC radio recently with Proff. Peter ? (can't recall his surname). He has worked in gas industry in N America and has returned to Aust to do likewise via a WA university. He mentioned that the producer of "Gasland", was asked: "Were you aware that gas has been present (as a 'natural occurrence') in the domestic water supplies for many years before coal-seam gas fracking commenced in the locations filmed"? The producer replied "yes". "Did you endeavour to inform the viewers of this fact at any stage during the documentarty"? The producer's reply: "No"! "Why not".producer's reply: "BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SUIT THE STORY-LINE!! This is why there are people 'out there' (like moi) who don't believe everything they read or hear from "environmentalists"!. Cheers.
  17. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    That is a such a red herring. The "environmentalists" in the clip aren't your usual hippies are they. They are farmers and traditional national party voters.

    To go back to your point, it's the other chemicals that are used and the release of the gas at large volumes (large enough to harvest) that is a concern. Those chemicals are released into the acquifers which are used for human and stock water. On that point, even the miners themselves don't disagree.

    If you have any information to suggest there is no danger to water supplies then feel free to post it.
  18. waratahjesus Greg Davis (50)

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    I understand totally your point, but by the same reasoning, will a gas company release information that inst convenient to them and there wants and needs. Gasland is designed to make a point just as press releases are, the truth is always in the middle but the major problem here is finding it before emotion highjacks the debate like has happened with o many issues lately.
    Scotty, Jnor and Cutter like this.
  19. Ruggo Mark Ella (57)

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    This is no different to the climate change debate. Proactive policy is required as the science on the issue is constantly evolving.

    I don't know about some of these documentaries on issues like this. I often think they can lead to more cynicism rather than the procative response they intend to generate which leaves them possibly more counterproductive than anything.
  20. ACT Crusader Peter Johnson (47)

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    Purely on the politics of this, last month Minister Fergo was supporting the industry with publicly, playing the "local investment" card and "Aussie companies" trick. IMO there will be little to stop the already large number of wells that exist in QLD, as politically there is no way the Government can afford to lose any royalties, tax income etc.

    These projects will continue to be the political argument to counter failing other sectors of the economy. That simply is not a sustainable political mantra especially when there appears to be more and more questions being asked.

    If anyone saw it less than a week ago now on Sky News (and the appalling Helen Dally), but, the head of Santos and "leader" of the peoples group leading a grassroots movement up in QLD debating the issues.

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