Concussions and Protecting Our Players
- Thread starter USARugger
- Start date
Cat_A
Arch Winning (36)
I think that what you wrote is valid because it is exactly what we hear in mainstream press and on boards like this every time something happens. And like you, I raise my eyebrows at someone playing 6 days after that sort of knock.
But there's a lot more to the story that doesn't get much press.
But there's a lot more to the story that doesn't get much press.
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
To me this indicates that a newer better concussion test is required that cant be cheated.
Could you have some sort of computer ap thing that measures reaction times to what is happening on the screen?
I guess you should have some sort of baseling figure, but surely to compete as a Pro athlete you would expect a minimum level for reactions would be above the general public. So use a generic pro athlete baseline.
I think player safety has to be taken in to account, especially when a player is still obviously lacking the ability to make a sane decision immediatley after the injury. But should there be allowances for a player to put there body on the line if they have consulted independant medical advice and choose to ignore it?
Some players might want to risk themself for a shot at glory. An example of this might be a player towards the end of his career who gets a head knock a week before the World Cup final and essentially recovers but the rules say he cant play. He talks to Dr's and other medical people and it is recommended that he not play. He still wants to play this last game of his career against advice. Who are we to stop him if he has recieved advice and wants to ignore it?
USA Rugger, great article. Well done
Could you have some sort of computer ap thing that measures reaction times to what is happening on the screen?
I guess you should have some sort of baseling figure, but surely to compete as a Pro athlete you would expect a minimum level for reactions would be above the general public. So use a generic pro athlete baseline.
I think player safety has to be taken in to account, especially when a player is still obviously lacking the ability to make a sane decision immediatley after the injury. But should there be allowances for a player to put there body on the line if they have consulted independant medical advice and choose to ignore it?
Some players might want to risk themself for a shot at glory. An example of this might be a player towards the end of his career who gets a head knock a week before the World Cup final and essentially recovers but the rules say he cant play. He talks to Dr's and other medical people and it is recommended that he not play. He still wants to play this last game of his career against advice. Who are we to stop him if he has recieved advice and wants to ignore it?
USA Rugger, great article. Well done
Rob42
John Solomon (38)
Liquor Box, your example is just an extreme version of the situation clubs face every week - ie, player gets head knock, advice is to stand him down but he disagrees - "But I feel fine!". I suppose the principle is that players may not be able to adequately assess risk themselves, even with good medical advice, and that for the club to go against that medical advice, even with the player's agreement, might leave them liable at some time down the track.
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
I realise it was extreme, I watch a lot of the US sports talk shows and they have had penty of NFL players who dont really care if they can walk later in life and seem to think concussions are a badge of honor.
suckerforred
Chilla Wilson (44)
Good input from all. Most people who have been on here for a while will know my opinion of head injuries & the management & risk there of.
Couple of things. Actually think that the management of Kane was good. He was removed immediately from the field. Obviously assessed & not allowed to go back on. I also trust that all professionals involved in his management from that point on menat that he was allowed to play again the following week.
I have got a bit cranky during the season when there have been a few players who have not been taken from the field to be assess when in my opinion, all be it from my couch, I feel they should have been. The head bin rule is there it should be used. Having said that I also think that I have perhaps a little more training than the average punter.
I think that there is an education thing that needs to happen in club land. Currently trying to work something out for the club I am involved with as I see things that I am not sure are being managed correctly because no one knows any different/better.
Couple of things. Actually think that the management of Kane was good. He was removed immediately from the field. Obviously assessed & not allowed to go back on. I also trust that all professionals involved in his management from that point on menat that he was allowed to play again the following week.
I have got a bit cranky during the season when there have been a few players who have not been taken from the field to be assess when in my opinion, all be it from my couch, I feel they should have been. The head bin rule is there it should be used. Having said that I also think that I have perhaps a little more training than the average punter.
I think that there is an education thing that needs to happen in club land. Currently trying to work something out for the club I am involved with as I see things that I am not sure are being managed correctly because no one knows any different/better.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
My point from my previous post was that after so many concussions myself (and no USAR it wasn't a car, just an a*&^le with a lump of 4x2) and experiencing first hand the varying degrees of memory loss etc. the medical opinion I received has been widely varied.
The guidelines are vague to my mind, and hence so many incidents seem to the lay person to get swept aside and the player cleared after what appears an inordinately short time. Some of that is the perception of the lay people and their previous experience of the strict time outs system.
However I am not so much worried about the individual incidents as much as the repeated traumas. There is a slowly building body of evidence that repeated traumas lead to long term damage, to the point where it would be very hard for anybody to dispute. What I would like to see however is some serious research done into susceptibility of a person to that damage and after what degree and number of trauma incidents. From a personal stand point again I have suffered few long term effects that I can ascertain from my repeated incidents, though I suppose my post mortem may prove differently when that time comes, so I wonder if I have some sort of resistance to the long term damage, or at least the symptoms of that damage. If we could better assess an individual's risk of not only long term damage, but better identify the symptoms of such damage before further traumas the risks could be lowered for the individuals.
Given the demographic of Rugby in Australia I am sure that we should be able to find some people in the right course to examine this issue, and Rugby provides a good base of incident which could start the examination.
The guidelines are vague to my mind, and hence so many incidents seem to the lay person to get swept aside and the player cleared after what appears an inordinately short time. Some of that is the perception of the lay people and their previous experience of the strict time outs system.
However I am not so much worried about the individual incidents as much as the repeated traumas. There is a slowly building body of evidence that repeated traumas lead to long term damage, to the point where it would be very hard for anybody to dispute. What I would like to see however is some serious research done into susceptibility of a person to that damage and after what degree and number of trauma incidents. From a personal stand point again I have suffered few long term effects that I can ascertain from my repeated incidents, though I suppose my post mortem may prove differently when that time comes, so I wonder if I have some sort of resistance to the long term damage, or at least the symptoms of that damage. If we could better assess an individual's risk of not only long term damage, but better identify the symptoms of such damage before further traumas the risks could be lowered for the individuals.
Given the demographic of Rugby in Australia I am sure that we should be able to find some people in the right course to examine this issue, and Rugby provides a good base of incident which could start the examination.
Craig Riddington
Sydney Middleton (9)
They appear to be trying out a procedure for managing concussions at the Junior World Cup. The referee or medical professional can ask a player who has received a head clash, be removed from the field for five minutes for a full assessment to be carried out by a doctor. You can see the feature video on the IRB website
http://www.irb.com/jwc/video/index.html
http://www.irb.com/jwc/video/index.html
Refabit
Darby Loudon (17)
This thread only serves to reinforce my prevailing refereeing parameters when adjudicating players attacking the head of an opponent. My goal is for spectators to consistently think I over-reacted to foul play.
"There wasn't much in that"
"It hit him across the chest and just slipped up"
"There wasn't much in that"
"It hit him across the chest and just slipped up"
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Reminds me of the old mungoball charge of "attacking the head of a player not in possession of the ball".
It was never made clear whether possession of the ball would have made the offence worse or better!
It will be interesting to see how the rehab of the head knocks from last night in the Wobs test go.
liquor box
Greg Davis (50)
I never thought I was an idiot, but I dont seem to understand how Lealiifano is right to play.The IRB Concussion Guidelines
Before we get started it's probably important to go over the concussion guidelines set forth by the IRB. From the IRB website here is a table of possible concussion symptoms:
The IRB's Graduated Return to Play (GTRP) protocols also reveal another aspect to Douglas playing again so soon:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby-...10-against-lions/story-fndptke0-1226669536790
How do you get left out for concussion?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Basically if you can go 3 days without symptoms with the prescribed activity levels you pass this part of the test, i think, Cat_A knows all!
IRB are apparently reviewing their new Concussion guidelines following recent criticism.
About time I say.
About time I say.
Cat_A
Arch Winning (36)
I can understand how Lealiifano and Douglas were allowed to play the following week, but there's no way I can get behind Smith returning during the same game.
There was a comment made somewhere that while the PSCA is designed to sit alongside the clinical diagnosis of a doctor - basically a double check - but unfortunately what happened is that passing the PSCA has replaced looking at clinical signs and symptoms. It's ridiculous how far some take box-ticking!
There was a comment made somewhere that while the PSCA is designed to sit alongside the clinical diagnosis of a doctor - basically a double check - but unfortunately what happened is that passing the PSCA has replaced looking at clinical signs and symptoms. It's ridiculous how far some take box-ticking!
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Rory Lamont speaks out against the IRB guidelines, along with the former IRB medical advisor Dr Barry O'Driscol.
http://www.espnscrum.com/scotland/rugby/story/192179.html
Its hard to disagree with anything that Lamont says in here.
http://www.espnscrum.com/scotland/rugby/story/192179.html
Its hard to disagree with anything that Lamont says in here.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
A recent article for people interested in this subject.
Very disturbing findings though not un-anticipated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23545796
Very disturbing findings though not un-anticipated.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23545796