Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Quick Hands]

Well it seems that the only solution to save junior club rugby is you get yourself onto SJRU, convince them that your solution and vision is the only way forward and lets see what you get. At least everyone will get their Sundays back, you will have successfully disenfranchised the private school toffs who actually do play and love the game, and we can all rejoice in your success.

The private school toffs (your expression not mine) can get their Sundays back very easily. They can play the school game on a Saturday.

Even though I disagree with you, at least you are running a consistent, logical argument, which is that you believe that Sunday rugby is best because it enables private school players to play club as well. Presumably from your line of argument, you believe that this is best for rugby (as opposed to being best for a narrow sectional interest)

 

[Quick Hands]

As an aside, there was mention on another thread about a St Augustine's team (14As), which went through the season undefeated with a huge points differential in their favour. I've done a bit of asking around and apparently there's only about 3 or 4 of them still play club rugby. Most of the rest used to, but gave up this year. They now play school rugby on Saturday mornings and junior league for one of the local clubs on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[loiterer]

If you discovered that from my post, I think you need to take English language lessons.
CLub AFL is played on a Saturday - it's on the ground next door where my daughter plays hockey. If their numbers are growing at the expense of club rugby, it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?

I am sorry, I misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. I thought that you were using an exhaustive sample of one to induce that kids AFL is only played on Saturdays. It now appears that point you were trying to make is that your daughter plays hockey.

 

[Brainstrust]

The private school toffs (your expression not mine) can get their Sundays back very easily. They can play the school game on a Saturday.

Even though I disagree with you, at least you are running a consistent, logical argument, which is that you believe that Sunday rugby is best because it enables private school players to play club as well. Presumably from your line of argument, you believe that this is best for rugby (as opposed to being best for a narrow sectional interest)

Actually my point is that until you actually know the stats of denying a supportive section of the community a chance to be involved in favour of trying to attract a non supportive section it is a dangerous strategy. I have tried to suggest that there are many factors affecting the support of the game and changing the timing to Saturday doesn't address those problems at all. If your Saturday strategy doesn't work where to then? The Saturday argument generally sounds more like an anti private school sentiment than a solution. I have been involved in junior rugby for many years and I am sympathetic to both arguments, and they both can and should work. Many of the private school boys are playing well before they even go to private school, they are just one group of supporters of the game. Unless the game at the junior level realistically faces the challenges and works on a solution to include all kids then you are simply swapping the player pool not growing it. A good starting point would be for the ARU or state bodies to take control, promote the game, and give it a structure. Right now there are too many unpaid , and many self interested parties working against each other. There is effectually no streamlined junior, subdues, colts, Shute shield etc structure in place. Senior clubs often have little or nothing to do with their juniors until they start stressing about their under performing colts. Junior clubs kind of put up with junior reps because they have to. My point is the game needs real leadership at the junior level and sadly the SJRU do not provide it. They wield a big stick but no value. So that's roughly my point.

 

[Quick Hands]

Actually my point is that until you actually know the stats of denying a supportive section of the community a chance to be involved in favour of trying to attract a non supportive section it is a dangerous strategy. I have tried to suggest that there are many factors affecting the support of the game and changing the timing to Saturday doesn't address those problems at all. If your Saturday strategy doesn't work where to then? The Saturday argument generally sounds more like an anti private school sentiment than a solution. I have been involved in junior rugby for many years and I am sympathetic to both arguments, and they both can and should work. Many of the private school boys are playing well before they even go to private school, they are just one group of supporters of the game. Unless the game at the junior level realistically faces the challenges and works on a solution to include all kids then you are simply swapping the player pool not growing it. A good starting point would be for the ARU or state bodies to take control, promote the game, and give it a structure. Right now there are too many unpaid , and many self interested parties working against each other. There is effectually no streamlined junior, subdues, colts, Shute shield etc structure in place. Senior clubs often have little or nothing to do with their juniors until they start stressing about their under performing colts. Junior clubs kind of put up with junior reps because they have to. My point is the game needs real leadership at the junior level and sadly the SJRU do not provide it. They wield a big stick but no value. So that's roughly my point.

I agree with nearaly all of this - which is not a bad way to finish. (I've never said that Sunday rugby was the only problem or that Saturday rugby would fix everything and all of my kids go to private schools - I can just see beyond that)

 

[Quick Hands]

I am sorry, I misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. I thought that you were using an exhaustive sample of one to induce that kids AFL is only played on Saturdays. It now appears that point you were trying to make is that your daughter plays hockey.

No I was indicating that club AFL is played on Saturdays and thus the argument that Saturday club rugby would lead boys to move to AFL was false.

It's a pity you have to make snide, narky comments instead of just making your own point and letting the facts speak for themselves.

 

[mangled]

Some Areas have league and afl on Sunday. .

 

[loiterer]

No I was indicating that club AFL is played on Saturdays and thus the argument that Saturday club rugby would lead boys to move to AFL was false.

It's a pity you have to make snide, narky comments instead of just making your own point and letting the facts speak for themselves.

I was indicating that the boys, that I know, who play AFL do so on Sundays. You seem to quite good at the narky comments yourself. -"I think you need to take English language lessons."
My desire is for as many kids as possible playing rugby at the level to which they aspire. I don't see how shutting out private school kids out of club will achieve this. Particularly, when they have other sports to choose from.

 

[Quick Hands]

Some Areas have league and afl on Sunday. .

I've been told that league doesn't start Sunday until 16s.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

My desire is for as many kids as possible playing rugby at the level to which they aspire. I don't see how shutting out private school kids out of club will achieve this. Particularly, when they have other sports to choose from.

The point is that the comp is actually run with the intention of getting private school kids to play: things are done to attract them.
What needs to be looked at is whether the things done to attract them (playing on sundays being an example; the now extinct grandfather clause being another) actually deter others.

 

[Quick Hands]

I was indicating that the boys, that I know, who play AFL do so on Sundays.

But that's not what you said - if you had said that, I would have accepted that as a fact and moved on, but what you said was:
But I feel much more confident about Rugby's future having discovered that AFL is only played on one ground in Sydney.

Which was a complete misrepresentation of what I said.

 

[Quick Hands]

The point is that the comp is actually run with the intention of getting private school kids to play: things are done to attract them.
What needs to be looked at is whether the things done to attract them (playing on sundays being an example; the now extinct grandfather clause being another) actually deter others.

Is it only me, or do you get the feeling that this thread is taking on some of the characteristics of the Scholarship thread?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is it only me, or do you get the feeling that this thread is taking on some of the characteristics of the Scholarship thread?

Now that you mention it.

 

[loiterer]

But that's not what you said - if you had said that, I would have accepted that as a fact and moved on, but what you said was:
But I feel much more confident about Rugby's future having discovered that AFL is only played on one ground in Sydney.

Which was a complete misrepresentation of what I said.

You were using one observation to argue that afl was purely played on Saturdays.

"CLub AFL is played on a Saturday - it's on the ground next door where my daughter plays hockey. If their numbers are growing at the expense of club rugby, it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?"

 

[Quick Hands]

You were using one observation to argue that afl was purely played on Saturdays.

"CLub AFL is played on a Saturday - it's on the ground next door where my daughter plays hockey. If their numbers are growing at the expense of club rugby, it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?"

Is played, not is only played - see the difference?

EDIT: I know you've only been here for 2 or 3 days, but people who want a reasonable discussion might have said something like - "well maybe AFL is played on a Saturday in your area, but in other areas it's played on a Sunday and I know some boys who play"

 

[loiterer]

Is played, not is only played - see the difference?

I don't see, if that is what you meant, how you could reach the following conclusion:

it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?"

 

[Quick Hands]

I don't see, if that is what you meant, how you could reach the following conclusion:

it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?"

But all the issues he talks about are occurring now when junior club rugby is played on a Sunday. How do they aid your point of view? Maybe some of the boys playing AFL are doing so because they don't want to play on a Sunday!

EDIT: CLub AFL is played on a Saturday - it's on the ground next door where my daughter plays hockey. If their numbers are growing at the expense of club rugby, it sort of kills the argument that Sunday club rugby is our saviour doesn't it?

Because the whole post reads like that. All the issues and problems that Brainstrust was talking about are occurring now - i.e. when club rugby is played on a Sunday. So if Sunday rugby was the answer to the problems they'd be solved by now.

I think in an earlier post, you were asserting that if club rugby moved to Saturdays boys would play soccer and AFL - but the day of the week is clearly not a factor in boys choosing soccer or AFL because AFL (as you have told us) is also played on both days.

I think Rule 9 is about to come into force.

 

[mangled]

Balmain district. . Sunday from minis

 

[Quick Hands]

Balmain district. . Sunday from minis

I don't disbelieve you, but that's contrary to what we've been told on this thread before (not by me I might add).

 

[mangled]

Well its def true.... AFL is the same. .