Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Dave Beat]

Manly Rugby camps in the April School Hols;

http://www.trytimerugby.com/trytime-rugby-camps/


Give the kids a these school hols.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

I wasn't sure which thread to put the below article from The Manly Daily in but I thought this thread seemed suitable.
A sad indictment on what is currently happening in grassroots rugby - junior and senior, at the Manly Marlins and Warringah Rats.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/4e104213409577ca7180ee0f9318dc70

 

[Dave Beat]

I wasn't sure which thread to put the below article from The Manly Daily in but I thought this thread seemed suitable.
A sad indictment on what is currently happening in grassroots rugby - junior and senior, at the Manly Marlins and Warringah Rats.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...n/news-story/4e104213409577ca7180ee0f9318dc70

Yep saw that, as per previous posts Manly has started a pathway that will be built on, reviewed, adapted, and built over time.

Looking forward to seeing ARU plans, not sure how to take ARU's comments about SS, and then not giving detail and plan.

Incline.

 

[Dingasden]

The ARU hierarchy seem to forget who feeds the private schools with their trained & educated players after playing 5 or more years of rugby but so much focus is on private school rugby while the junior club rugby dies a slow death from u14s on. Over 30 teams made up the Sydney u17s & u18s in separate comps about 6 years ago now in a combined comp they are lucky to get 10 teams. Last year only 4 teams consistently fielded an u18s colts team. This year only 2 as a result of Zero time & effort or attention was put into this critical pathway by Sydney Juniors or NSW rugby. It is not on anyone's radars. The thought seems to be there are plenty of players in private school rugby who will feed the colts. If something is not done soon I predict junior club rugby will die after the u16s within the next 5 years. Watch the colts numbers drop when that happens.

 

[Armchair Selector]

I agree with your argument about lack of resources being put into Junior Rugby beyond U15s. I think Junior Gold Cup is a terrific initiative and with the support of ALL stakeholders could provide a pathway but at this stage to what? U18 is a mess, U20 elite is covered but what about Shute Shield and Subbies colts?

Press releases from the ARU tout their support of community Rugby but I am bewildered by how out of touch Senior management appear to be. Frankly it is embarrassing.

To do your argument justice please check your facts. In 2010 The SJRU Opens comp had 5 teams in the A comp and 5 teams in the B Comp.

In 2013 the Opens Comp had 16 teams in the A comp (no B Comp)

In 2015 the Opens Comp had 7 teams in the A comp (no B Comp)

Not being a pedant but want to make sure we argue with the facts. It discredits the valid message. We are on the same page I can assure you!

Really worried about the future of U15s and older as the powers that be appear to be making it all too hard. What an indictment that you have a schoolboy pathway to NSW V QLD in U16 and Opens but nothing in Club Rugby.

Incentive for NSW Club U15s? Go play NSW U16s at the end of the year. What an incentive for the players to aspire to.

Not blaming NSWJRU for this one but feel ARU should resolve some pathway to keep players in the game. QLD and ACT Rugby are culpable in this one too.

The talented kids at Private schools have a pathway well funded by the schools and parents (well parents....) We (the ARU et al) make it too easy for the majority not in that environment to leave the game.

The true measure of success for the health of the game should be how many players transition from Junior Rugby to colts and then to seniors. I don't know the answer but I suspect I wont like the result and nor should the ARU. WAKE UP!

 

[Dingasden]

I agree with your argument about lack of resources being put into Junior Rugby beyond U15s. I think Junior Gold Cup is a terrific initiative and with the support of ALL stakeholders could provide a pathway but at this stage to what? U18 is a mess, U20 elite is covered but what about Shute Shield and Subbies colts?

Press releases from the ARU tout their support of community Rugby but I am bewildered by how out of touch Senior management appear to be. Frankly it is embarrassing.

To do your argument justice please check your facts. In 2010 The SJRU Opens comp had 5 teams in the A comp and 5 teams in the B Comp.

In 2013 the Opens Comp had 16 teams in the A comp (no B Comp)

In 2015 the Opens Comp had 7 teams in the A comp (no B Comp)

I acknowledge my numbers were very rough but wanted to point to the drop off in the last 10 years. The numbers you have used look to be based on Buddha which includes teams that played only 1 game the whole year. Eg in 2013 8 of the 16 teams played less than 50% of the total (9) games. In 2014 there were 10 teams that survived past round 1 and in 2015 only 6 made it to the end of the season. Will there be a Como this year? Time will tell.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

I notice that my junior club Beecroft Cherrybrook have changed their name to the 'Northern Barbarians'. On their website they state they get players from 'Cheltenham, Beecroft, Pennant Hills, West Pennant Hills, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Thornleigh, Westleigh and from as far as North Rocks, Denistone and Dural

Now to me this is sad for a number of reasons. They are a well run club but they originally started as Pennant Hills, then Beecroft, then Beecroft-Cherrybrook and now this. As a strong club they have swallowed up players from everywhere and in the Eastwood district you now have two of the smaller clubs, Hillview and Epping merging to form Central Eastwood. In my day (92,93,94) Beecroft played in the Met west comp with clubs from the Eastwood, Parramatta and there was the odd club from Penrith or West Harbour (Wests Juniors). The Under 10's-17's would play a home game against an opposition club in basically every grade.

Eastwood Juniors must be in real strife. In the older age groups they must only have Beecroft and Dural to pick rep teams from???

Rugby has fallen a long way from my days as a junior player. What is the answer? I have no idea but we need to get kids playing the sport or the number are going to shrink even further!

 

[Quick Hands]

There is now a big drop off between 11s and 12s. I've spoken to parents who havn'et come back and the Sydney-wide nature of the SJRU competitions is a factor. There is absolutely no need for 10s to 12s to be playing Sydney-wide. We could have properly graded competitions for those kids more locally based instead of having 10, 11 and 12 year olds who have no rep aspirations and are just playing for fun, to be criss-crossing Sydney from Newport to Sylvania, to Blue Mountains, to Hawkesbury, to Coogee.

If you're a parent or child who isn't particularly committed to either league or union and the union comp is all over Sydney and the league comp is local - a significant number are choosing league. The fanatical rugby nuts will go anywhere anytime, but we already have them committed. We're not winning over the uncommitted who are just looking for a team sport.

Rant over.

 

[Dave Beat]

I'm after stats on # kids playing a season (> 5 games) over the last 3 years in different winter sports U6 - U14 in NSW
Union
League
Soccer
AFL

Why - at our local prep school we have Eagle Tag and if you don't get in not allot and the headmistress has referenced Paul Kelly's AFL. I don't no any kids who play AFL, so why, but if there is no second choice what else do you do?

 

[Armchair Selector]

Having just read Brett Papworth's Blog on another forum, I would strongly suggest anyone who has an interest in the future of the game has a good read

http://www.rugbynews.net.au/a-grassroots-perspective-on-the-arus-strategic-plan/

I lament at Ozzie Bob's post re the state of Eastwood Junior Rugby. Sounds like the wagons have been circled at T G Milner. Traditional Rugby heartland in Sydney. Please don't use the argument about the change of demographics in the area. We are talking the entire North West of Sydney. "Hello anyone listening!"

Is anyone prepared to accept the game is in a serious crisis? Will the powers that be as custodians of the future of Rugby in Australia accept their culpability?

I suspect we know the answer. The more I read the angrier I get. Fiddle away Nero, Rome is burning!

 

[Quick Hands]

I notice that my junior club Beecroft Cherrybrook have changed their name to the 'Northern Barbarians'. On their website they state they get players from 'Cheltenham, Beecroft, Pennant Hills, West Pennant Hills, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Thornleigh, Westleigh and from as far as North Rocks, Denistone and Dural

Now to me this is sad for a number of reasons. They are a well run club but they originally started as Pennant Hills, then Beecroft, then Beecroft-Cherrybrook and now this. As a strong club they have swallowed up players from everywhere and in the Eastwood district you now have two of the smaller clubs, Hillview and Epping merging to form Central Eastwood. In my day (92,93,94) Beecroft played in the Met west comp with clubs from the Eastwood, Parramatta and there was the odd club from Penrith or West Harbour (Wests Juniors). The Under 10's-17's would play a home game against an opposition club in basically every grade.

Eastwood Juniors must be in real strife. In the older age groups they must only have Beecroft and Dural to pick rep teams from???

Rugby has fallen a long way from my days as a junior player. What is the answer? I have no idea but we need to get kids playing the sport or the number are going to shrink even further!

Unfortunately, I go back even further.

I played my junior rugby in the 1970s. Rugby everywhere was stronger then. When I was playing, there was a club called Central Eastwood who we used to come across at gala days and 7 a side competitions - they played in blue and white hoops IIRC.

Back in my day the local juniors (and they were truly local then) stayed as local as possible for as long as possible. For example in 10s to 14s Manly, Warringah, Norths and Hornsby (their disappearance is another failure of rugby administrators, but I digress) JRUs ran a combined competition. Gordon stood alone and they came together in the 15s as North Harbour Zone.

We never played anyone from anywhere else except at pre-season trials or the above-mentioned gala days.

I assume Eastwood and Parramatta operated in a similar fashion as the northern clubs (Parramatta ran about 8 junior clubs back in those days) and Eastwood probably the same or more. In fact Manly, Parramatta and Eastwood were probably the three strongest clubs at rep level.

What's even more frustrating is that 20 years ago I was talking about this to people in authority - and they didn't want to know. It's 2016 and they've only just realised that a handful GPS and CAS schools in Sydney and Brisbane can't produce enough players for the Wallabies to be consistently on top in this professional era.

Plenty of hard work ahead to regain what we have lost, let alone spread the rugby gospel.

 

[Dave Beat]

QH - I think we have the best product which is a plus, it is simply a case of introduction so people can enjoy and be aware.

 

[Quick Hands]

QH - I think we have the best product which is a plus, it is simply a case of introduction so people can enjoy and be aware.

Absolutely, we've just been way off the pace in selling it to the the people and introducing new people to the game. Hopefully the initiatives announce by the ARU recently will go at least some way to address, but I suspect that those running ARU/NSWRU don't reall appreciate (a) the enormity of the task that they face, (b) the resources needed to do the task and (c) the fact that we had a great grass roots structure but it was successive administrations that let it run down to critical level.

Initiatives such as the one that you and others are doing in Manly are a small scale blueprint of what should be happening everywhere. I know that a few hard-working volunteers are slogging it out all over rugby land - they really need a big helping hand from above.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

Surely it is time to look at the rapid growth areas of Sydney. The North West with areas like Castle Hill, Baulkham Hills, Rouse Hill, Kellyville, Blacktown. I know there is already Hills Rugby club but these areas should be targeted heavily and new strong clubs set up. Same with South West Sydney!

From an Eastwood perspective i can understand what happened with Hillview and Epping. The changing demographics in the area have had a massive impact. BUT Eastwood should be focusing its attention on areas like Ryde Rugby Club. There should be major attempts to get the club up and running! Also why don't Eastwood try and take some ownership and try and get a club up and running north of Hornsby (Not sure if this would technically be in the Gordon district) You have areas like Hornsby Heights, Asquith and Berowra that have a lot of young families and although this was traditionally a Rugby League stronghold the grip isn't as strong.

The ARU should be going into every Shute Shield district with the aim of establishing at least one new club in each district! That is where the money should be going!

 

[Dingasden]

Or just as important save junior clubs from extinction. Last 10 years Southern Districts have lost South Hurstville, Blakehurst & Engadine. That's 3 rugby clubs, 3 rugby fields & a lot of history lost forever with local kids limited to soccer, league & now AFL. A sad state of affairs with no support ever offered by ARU to save any of these clubs.

 

[TKO]

PETER FITZSIMONS: A Qantas Wallabies legend has taken aim at the ARU over the treatment of grassroots rugby.

ARU slammed for not getting enough bums into muddy shorts​

​

SMH.COM.AU​

​

 

[Quick Hands]

Or just as important save junior clubs from extinction. Last 10 years Southern Districts have lost South Hurstville, Blakehurst & Engadine. That's 3 rugby clubs, 3 rugby fields & a lot of history lost forever with local kids limited to soccer, league & now AFL. A sad state of affairs with no support ever offered by ARU to save any of these clubs.

They've unfortunately followed clubs like Manly Vikings, Cambridge Bay, Willoughby, Normanhurst, Northmead into extinction.

 

[Norfolk & Chance]

Surely it is time to look at the rapid growth areas of Sydney. The North West with areas like Castle Hill, Baulkham Hills, Rouse Hill, Kellyville, Blacktown. I know there is already Hills Rugby club but these areas should be targeted heavily and new strong clubs set up. Same with South West Sydney!

From an Eastwood perspective i can understand what happened with Hillview and Epping. The changing demographics in the area have had a massive impact. BUT Eastwood should be focusing its attention on areas like Ryde Rugby Club. There should be major attempts to get the club up and running! Also why don't Eastwood try and take some ownership and try and get a club up and running north of Hornsby (Not sure if this would technically be in the Gordon district) You have areas like Hornsby Heights, Asquith and Berowra that have a lot of young families and although this was traditionally a Rugby League stronghold the grip isn't as strong.

The ARU should be going into every Shute Shield district with the aim of establishing at least one new club in each district! That is where the money should be going!

Wahroonga Rugby have Hornsby as their patch. Eastwood is in a mess with plenty of self interest among the clubs. They don't work as a team they just do what they want and what they think is the best thing for their club, not the whole district.

 

[Quick Hands]

Wahroonga Rugby have Hornsby as their patch.

Once upon a time, Hornsby was it's own district with 4 or 5 junior clubs of their own- Wahroonga, St Ives, Normanhurst, Asquith to name 4. But that's another story of rugby failure.

 

[Thomo77]

Surely it is time to look at the rapid growth areas of Sydney. The North West with areas like Castle Hill, Baulkham Hills, Rouse Hill, Kellyville, Blacktown. I know there is already Hills Rugby club but these areas should be targeted heavily and new strong clubs set up. Same with South West Sydney!

From an Eastwood perspective i can understand what happened with Hillview and Epping. The changing demographics in the area have had a massive impact. BUT Eastwood should be focusing its attention on areas like Ryde Rugby Club. There should be major attempts to get the club up and running! Also why don't Eastwood try and take some ownership and try and get a club up and running north of Hornsby (Not sure if this would technically be in the Gordon district) You have areas like Hornsby Heights, Asquith and Berowra that have a lot of young families and although this was traditionally a Rugby League stronghold the grip isn't as strong.

The ARU should be going into every Shute Shield district with the aim of establishing at least one new club in each district! That is where the money should be going!

Hi folks,

It's really interesting that you mention the North West as it appears to me that these areas are likely the only ones growing. Participation at Norwest and Blacktown is increasing year on year and both clubs seem to be doing very well to bring new players in at all ages.

The Western Zone U17s just won the JGC and there's lots of talented kids running around outside the schools system sticking with the game.

It will be interesting to see how the comps fare this year. One of the hardest parts of keeping kids and their parents engaged is the availability of teams in the more traditional rugby heartlands in the older years - the competition drops off largely due to the impact of school rugby and it's hard to keep the kids and their parents engaged when they face repeated forfeits and deferrals etc.