COVID-19 Stuff Here

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm startled by a large portion of Australia's lack of empathy towards Victoria.

Our state lines are really coming out, thought it was "we're all in this together", apparently not.

Victorians, who took took the majority of international returning flights, are now suffering largely because of chance (plus a couple careless mistakes and the other states' success).

Really makes me depressed with our two party system that the opportunity to stick the boot in and score a few political points will always outweigh showing some fucking real leadership.

I feel for the people in Victoria. Talking to some clients in Melbourne yesterday, they haven't been in their office since March. That's gotta suck. I think there is a sense of frustration on the part of the other states in the country (rightly or wrongly) that is similar to the NSW situation (Ruby Princess, aged care) early on in the pandemic. That is, "what incompetence caused this and who is to blame?" I also think that many are looking at the Premier of Victoria and wondering if he knows what he's doing, especially considering his dismissive attitude towards states like SA a few months ago. There's more than a bit of schadenfreude I reckon. I will also add that I'm starting to get frustrated with the WA premier and his near total unwillingness to discuss a road map for reopening our state.

 

[fatprop]

Correct. And I think we need to stop talking about "living with the virus until a vaccine comes along". In all likelihood, we will be living with this virus well beyond the arrival of even a good vaccine. We're still living with the Spanish Flu today - it's just that most of us have good immunity to it. We're still living with other seasonal flu viruses, despite good vaccines. IF a good vaccine comes out in the next 12 months, governments will need to work out how to react to new cases of COVID after most of the population has been vaccinated - because there will still be new cases.

Yep, I posted an article on the Variations in approach of the European countries and how the lock down wasn't correlated to deaths - it was more complicated with multiple factors.

It was the overall health of the population, contact tracing and healthcare systems, intensive care beds etc. Other studies have highlighted obesity (hint over 40 BMI is bad) & vitamin D deficiencies, population densities, multiple generational living etc etc

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Correct. And I think we need to stop talking about "living with the virus until a vaccine comes along". In all likelihood, we will be living with this virus well beyond the arrival of even a good vaccine. We're still living with the Spanish Flu today - it's just that most of us have good immunity to it. We're still living with other seasonal flu viruses, despite good vaccines. IF a good vaccine comes out in the next 12 months, governments will need to work out how to react to new cases of COVID after most of the population has been vaccinated - because there will still be new cases.

I could totally understand the cautious attitude towards the pandemic at the beginning, when we didn't know a lot about how serious/lethal it was and also what treatments work best. I think we know enough about it now to be a bit more flexible and not hide under the doona until a vaccine arrives. I just don't think that's a practical strategy.

 

[Derpus]

Really? Looks like plenty of premiers have approval ratings at record highs. Possibly because they've been forced to focus on fixing one thing, in an area where they can receive good support from a competent public service. And hence been distracted from the endless arguments in areas where both parties really aren't all that different, and are mostly focused on perpetuating their own influence.

Comment based on the results of as series of surveys aimed at understanding the confidence in democratic systems in Aus that i saw somewhere - not individual approval rates.

BUT fuck me if i know where to find it now, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Ignoto]

I could totally understand the cautious attitude towards the pandemic at the beginning, when we didn't know a lot about how serious/lethal it was and also what treatments work best. I think we know enough about it now to be a bit more flexible and not hide under the doona until a vaccine arrives. I just don't think that's a practical strategy.

Hornet, please don't think that this isn't directed at you, but more the commentary around this situation.

Honestly, outside of Victoria and NSW/Sydney. The rest of Australia has returned to the closest thing we'll get to returning back to 'normal'. Queenslanders are able to go out for dinner, head to the pub, rugby, shops without too much concern about the virus. I am more likely to die driving to Bunnings than I am to get the virus.

Victoria's problems extend from more than just 'they took more planes'. I think you'd find the predicament Victoria is in stems from a raft of issues and I think chalking things up to 'luck' is similar to how people perceived the All Blacks dominance in some games....that it was luck that they did a kick, regathered it and scored a try. But in actual fact, they made their own luck by having three people chasing the kick to pressure the catcher and those three blokes were able to act as support option to offload allowing them continue keeping the ball alive.

What if Queensland was so 'lucky' because:
- They didn't use 'social inclusion/job creation' programs to ensure returning travelers were supervised by trained and accountable 'guards'/Police/The Army
- Had a proper contact tracing system in place and scalable.
- The agency responsible for handling the pandemic had a response plan and executed well.
- A clear and concise message on what was required by the states residents and why border closure was necessary.

That's just off the top of my head of things that strike me as being different between the states that had pockets of Covid and the state/s that have had fires to put out. And in all honesty, I hate the words 'luck' or 'lucky' because not only does that diminish the hardwork people have done but it in no way provides any accountability for those who made these blunders.

Sorry for the rant. But, any anger Victorians have about their situation shouldn't be directed at other citizens 'lack' of empathy, but more at the bureaucrats who failed them. More self reflection needs to be done for those down south.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I agree with a lot of that, Ignoto.

 

[Tex]

Hornet, please don't think that this isn't directed at you, but more the commentary around this situation.

Honestly, outside of Victoria and NSW/Sydney. The rest of Australia has returned to the closest thing we'll get to returning back to 'normal'. Queenslanders are able to go out for dinner, head to the pub, rugby, shops without too much concern about the virus. I am more likely to die driving to Bunnings than I am to get the virus.

Victoria's problems extend from more than just 'they took more planes'. I think you'd find the predicament Victoria is in stems from a raft of issues and I think chalking things up to 'luck' is similar to how people perceived the All Blacks dominance in some games..that it was luck that they did a kick, regathered it and scored a try. But in actual fact, they made their own luck by having three people chasing the kick to pressure the catcher and those three blokes were able to act as support option to offload allowing them continue keeping the ball alive.

What if Queensland was so 'lucky' because:
- They didn't use 'social inclusion/job creation' programs to ensure returning travelers were supervised by trained and accountable 'guards'/Police/The Army
- Had a proper contact tracing system in place and scalable.
- The agency responsible for handling the pandemic had a response plan and executed well.
- A clear and concise message on what was required by the states residents and why border closure was necessary.

That's just off the top of my head of things that strike me as being different between the states that had pockets of Covid and the state/s that have had fires to put out. And in all honesty, I hate the words 'luck' or 'lucky' because not only does that diminish the hardwork people have done but it in no way provides any accountability for those who made these blunders.

Sorry for the rant. But, any anger Victorians have about their situation shouldn't be directed at other citizens 'lack' of empathy, but more at the bureaucrats who failed them. More self reflection needs to be done for those down south.

I was going to throw a few hand grenades at you for this fairly poor reading of the room, but took a few deep breaths and decided to let it pass.

The Victorian experience and to a lesser extent that of Sydney with the Ruby Princess is not an opportunity for people to pat themselves and their local bureaucrats on the back for a job well done; it's a bold highlighted underlined case study for how quickly things can spiral out of control.

 

[Ignoto]

I was going to throw a few hand grenades at you for this fairly poor reading of the room, but took a few deep breaths and decided to let it pass.

The Victorian experience and to a lesser extent that of Sydney with the Ruby Princess is not an opportunity for people to pat themselves and their local bureaucrats on the back for a job well done; it's a bold highlighted underlined case study for how quickly things can spiral out of control.

Tex, I wasn't saying the rest of Australia is without fault, more so, they're in the position they're in largely because of what they have done, rather than what they haven't done and some magical hand of god spared them.

I'm unsure why what I posted is 'poor reading of the room'. Just because some states aren't in lockdown, doesn't mean they're not feeling the impacts of the Virus. Queensland's unemployment is the highest in the country, followed by WA and SA. When you look at the 'Rona free' states, all bar Canberra and Tasmania have higher unemployment than NSW and VIC.

Hell, Queensland unemployment went up 1.1% from June to July while Victoria went down by 0.7% (or almost 23,000 people got a job last month).

I'd dare say the reading of the room needs to be broaden rather than narrowed to one particular state in Australia.

 

[Tex]

The highlighted bit at the bottom got me riled. I tend to think the rest of your post was spot on

 

[Dctarget]

Yeah Tex, I was going to go in guns blazing too. I'm tempted to make this a hill I die on but it's not worth it. I agree people in Vic have fucked up but it's unfair to compare responses from a 5m city to a 2.2m city, the risks and stresses are not the same. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Dctarget]

Actually sorry Ignoto, I know I just promised. But why shouldn't I be disappointed at people's lack of empathy? The 5 million people in Victoria didn't make the mistakes, their government did and in an incredibly difficult situation that I'd argue only Sydney has dealt with too. It doesn't take much to show some empathy. But people almost seem to be revelling in the suffering of average Aussies who happen to have a postcode beginning with 3.

 

[Rob42]

Actually sorry Ignoto, I know I just promised. But why shouldn't I be disappointed at people's lack of empathy? The 5 million people in Victoria didn't make the mistakes, their government did and in an incredibly difficult situation that I'd argue only Sydney has dealt with too. It doesn't take much to show some empathy. But people almost seem to be revelling in the suffering of average Aussies who happen to have a postcode beginning with 3.

You're right, mate, it absolutely sucks, what all Victorians have to go through right now. Stay strong, hope your Rebels do you proud on Saturday night.

 

[Dctarget]

You're right, mate, it absolutely sucks, what all Victorians have to go through right now. Stay strong, hope your Rebels do you proud on Saturday night.

Thanks mate, fortunately I'm a Victorian who got out and has holed up in Sydney, so can't claim any hardship here, but appreciate the thoughts.

 

[Tex]

Thanks mate, fortunately I'm a Victorian who got out and has holed up in Sydney, so can't claim any hardship here, but appreciate the thoughts.

FUCKEN TRAITOR!

haha jokes mate, smart move. a friend works for Supercars and managed to escape on the edge of stage four. I've essentially blocked their socials

 

[Dctarget]

FUCKEN TRAITOR!

haha jokes mate, smart move. a friend works for Supercars and managed to escape on the edge of stage four. I've essentially blocked their socials

Yeah, my friends grew tired very, very quickly of my instagram stories of beaches and pubs. No idea why though aha

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

So Auckland is still in L2.5 & rest of NZ L2 partly because some mostly PI Evangelicals with links to like-minded groups in the US have decided that continuing to hold large prayer meetings is the solution, not part of the problem & that of course they should keep attending "bereavement events" at other churches etc (last week we buried my wife's uncle while maintaining all of the health & most of the cultural protocols so it ain't that hard). Gov has their PI Minister & MP (Moana Pasifika)'s plus other PI community leaders working the problem.

Once those people are persuaded to join the rest of us & that getting tested or treated won't make them visible to Immigration (anecdotally there's a number of illegals associated with the group) we should be able to get back to L1 fairly quickly, although Auckland may have to go through a L1.5 transition phase.

Interestingly there were people in the stands at QBE last night, many of them kids/ teens who presumably weren't there in a work capacity so it'll be interesting to see if that's also the case at the remaining games this weekend: officially you can't have spectators in L2 so perhaps the authorities are turning a blind eye?

 

[zer0]

It is a bit annoying. Especially based on the estimation that, were it not for the god botherers and the plonker who went to a funeral while waiting for his test results to return, then we would have less than half the cases we do now. Unfortunately, due to the lag, we still have a few days to wait before knowing the full extent of their selfishness.

EDIT: I understand why it won't/shouldn't happen right now, but I wonder if -- once this has all blown over -- those few responsible will get the full Christian experience of having the legal hammer dropped on them. Guess that would depend on how long it takes for any vaccine to be distributed.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ cops dispersed one of the too-large prayer meetings but AFAIK didn't issue so much as warnings so I wouldn't hold my breath for any legal consequences, everyone seems to be walking on eggshells where these guys are concerned, my guess is they don't want to be seen as picking on the wider PI community who are already copping enough unwarranted shit re: the first cluster.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

As of this morning 98% of the Evangelicals had been tested so it appears the softly-softly approach has worked. Doesn't excuse their initial stupidity of course.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Auckland staying in L2.5 for another week in nail midnight Wednesday 23/09, rest of NZ may come out of L2 midnight next Monday 21/09. Idiot who went to a funeral with test results pending appears to have infected 15 people & the need to contain that sub-cluster is behind the extension.