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Cricket: Australia v. India v. Sri Lanka 2011/12

Discussion in 'Cricket' started by mark_s, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. mark_s Chilla Wilson (44)

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    So the NZ series has been split and its back to square 1 for Aus. Player changes are needed and changes shall come. We have got ourselves into a bad spot though with no more first class games in Aus until after the Indian test series is finished, other than the 2 chairman XI games for which development squads have been picked. PLayers will need to be picked on past glories or on what every they can produce in the domestic big bash or suburban games. A far from ideal situation, even one more round of shield matches would have been very helpful now.

    At the top of the order, Warner has done enough to be retained for the boxing day test. Yes the luck fell his way in the 2nd innings in hobart but thats cricket, ride it while you can. Hughes and Khawaja will make way for Watson and S March, assuming the later two are confirmed as fit/recovered.

    I think the selectors will resist more changes to the middle order for the boxing day test. They will want to see how 4-7 bat with a (potentially) better contribution from 1-3. In any event, they will be worried about too many changes too soon. There are still big issues here though other than Clarke. Here are Ponting, Hussey and Haddin's test averages in 2011 so far:

    Ponting: 27
    Hussey: 42, but this is inflated by the 2nd test in sri lanka where most aussies got amoungst the runs (except ponting who was injured) and the game petered out into a high scoring draw. Leaving that test out bring Hussey's average back to 37 which I think is more representative.
    Haddin: 22

    So thats a combined average of 85 runs per test from positions 4, 6 and 7. Way too low. Whats worse, they tend to fail together. In 8 out of the 13 2011 test innings these three players combined for an aggregate of 45 runs or less. In the other 5 innnings, the combined for an aggregate of 150 runs or more. Its feast or famine, with too few feasts.

    The cards of all 3 players are marked barring some dramatic and immediate form reversals. On the surface, Hussey would seem safest but all of his runs came in Sri Lanka, his average from the other test innings in 2011 was only 14. Both Haddin and Ponting show marginal more consistency.

    All 3 will probably start in Melbourne. It would take someone to really stand up in the chairman XI games, both of which are shortened games. Its hard to see it happening.

    Bowlers are more settled with only Starc under pressure. I think he will be dropped, unless the selectors love affair with left armers clouds their judgement, again. Hopefully Cutting will be fit for boxing day but its shuffling deck chairs while our batting is so poor.
    Moses likes this.
  2. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    I would like to see Khawaja stay in the side. I don't think he is in too poor form, and plus he is a good prospect for the future. He needs a good period at the top of the order to find his legs, and I don't think he is far off. One century could set him right off.

    I think the selectors have to make a hard decision about either Ponting or Hussey. I think I would drop Punter. He's a great player, but has too many obvious flaws at the moment. His shot today was a shocker. He has lost his mojo and I don't think it will ever come back. Hussey is out of form as well but I think deserves one more chance, he has gotten out to some good balls the last few tests.

    As for the bowlers, I would bring in Harris for Starc. Haddin is also on his last legs, with Paine to come in the moment he is fit and ready.

    So I would play:

    1. Warner
    2. Khawaja
    3. Marsh
    4. Clarke
    5. Hussey
    6. Watson
    7. Haddin
    8. Harris
    9. Siddle
    10. Pattinson
    11. Lyon

    If Hussey is still failing, I would be tempted to bring in a temporary stop-gap player from the Shield. Someone like Ed Cowan, Adam Voges or Tom Cooper. But I don't really see these guys as long-term international prospects. Not yet anyway. But I would prefer to take a chance on them than keep Hussey if he can't find form.


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  3. waratahjesus Greg Davis (50)

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    For mine there is a very simple call to make. Drop both punter and hussey. There not performing any better than the young guys. The only reason to keep them there is leadership, but in doing so your preventing players from becoming battle hardened. Were 80% of the way there with the next generation, just go 100% now and let the guys prepare as a cohesive team til the ashes.
  4. DPK Peter Sullivan (51)

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    I agree, but I really hope that century comes soon. You can be as solid and have as good a technique as possible, but at the end of the day batting for Australia requires you to score big runs consistently.
    AngrySeahorse, Scotty and barbarian like this.
  5. mark_s Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Clarke won't move up the order. He did it before and his average suffered and most cricketers are superstitious about those sort of things.

    Here is the team I would like to see them pick:

    1. Watson
    2. Warner
    3. Marsh
    4 Ponting (or Hussey, I would go punter)
    5 Clarke
    6 Khawaja
    7 Haddin
    8 Siddle
    9 Patterson
    10 Harris if fit, otherwise Cutting
    11 Lyon

    I would keep Usmin but drop him down the order to 6, where he played at the start of the sri lanka series. Its tough to drop Hussey and kepe Ponting, but I would prefer to give a young guy a chance at 6 to work his way into the team. One option is to move Hussey up to 4 and drop Ponting, ultimately I kept Ponting because he is RH and if Hussey was there 4 out of the top 6 would be lefties and because Hussey hasn't excelled when batting at 4 in the past.

    We have already invested a lot with Khawaja and I would given him another series to show what he can do. If this team still failed, the next move for me would be to drop ponting, move Watson down to 4 and bring Cowan into open with Warner.

    Oh one more thing. Our batting coach should be sacked by 9am this morning.
  6. RugbyReg George Smith (75)

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    stuff it. Let's pick on form. Forget reputation or potential. Pick on form. Get this Aussie team back to being a representative team for the best players in Australia, not a club team of those with the highest contract.

    1 Ed Cowan
    2 David Warner
    3 Shane Watson
    4 Michael Clarke
    5 Peter Forrest
    6 Dan Christian
    7 Matthew Wade
    8 Michael Hogan
    9 Peter Siddle
    10 James Pattison
    11 Nathan Lyon
  7. Moses Simon Poidevin (60)

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    Drop Punter and bring back Roy. He needs to get the monkey off his back
    mark_s likes this.
  8. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    When was it ever that though? There have always been players picked on reputation with bad numbers. Once their numbers get so bad they either retire or are dropped. I do agree that form should be considered more than it is now, but I would prefer to see a team like:

    1. Cowan
    2. Warner
    3. Khawaja
    4. Marsh
    5. Clarke
    6. Watson
    7. Wade
    8. Harris
    9. Siddle
    10. Pattinson
    11. Lyon

    Marsh is proven class and was looking good in SA. Harris is the same. Wade probably deserves a shot but I doubt he is up to it.

    At the end of the day though Test cricket isn't like playing Super rugby. It is a whole new ball game, and some players have it and others don't. Weight of runs at Shield level does not necessarily translate into success at international level- for every Hayden and Hussey there is a Matthew Elliot or Marcus North. Simply picking the blokes with most runs won't work, you need to find those with that x-factor. At the moment I would be looking to blood Nic Maddinson, Mitchell Marsh, Liam Davis, Tom Cooper, Nathan Rimmington, Chris Lynn, Nathan Boyce and Josh Hazlewood. They look the goods to me, although I don't watch a huge amount of state cricket so I have probably missed a few guys.

    Looking forward to the Chairman's XI games, they will count for a lot I think.
    Scotty likes this.
  9. mark_s Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Very true - is there any other sport in the world where every single play is analysed and reviewed over and over again by both the crowd at the ground and the media? Every error or weakeness in technique or execution is analysed and commented on real time, sometimes for days or even weeks. The consequences of a single error can be massive. The mental aspects of the game are massive and thats why people who have proven they can succeed at this level and deal with this pressure are cut so much more slack. Its difficult to constantly blood new players in this environment, and we saw that in the mid 80s for Aus where Border was the only certainty and others were playing for thier position in many games. At the same time, people who lose the mental battle are goners and at best need a period out of the spot light to rebuild their confidence (ala Phil Hughes), in some cases they never come back (ala Kim Hughes).

    This, along with the usual sporting need to build teamwork and combinations, is why picking players purely on form doesn't work. Picking and sticking generally works as a selection strategy, the problem is that due to injuries and poor selection, it hasn't worked for us in the last four years now.
  10. Swat Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Well said Mark. It is this reason of perfection and scrutiny, of mental fortitude, that Test Cricket for me will always be the best form of the game
  11. mark_s Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Mountains of press today, one article in particular gives us great insight into boxing day.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...-boxing-day-test/story-fn2mcu3x-1226221146584

    Marsh is still injured, can't play in the chairmens XI and is unlikely to make boxing day. Arthur also very strongly hints that ponting and hussey will be there boxing day with maybe Cown and Watson to come in and replace Hughes + Khawaja.
  12. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    I suspect you are slightly joking, but if we did that we'd be changing the team every couple of games, which is not the way we went about it when we dominated cricket.

    There is a massive, repeat massive step up from domestic cricket to test level. Sheer numbers at domestic level count for something, but the can't count for everything due to a couple of reasons 1. the difference in pitches around australia, 2. that talent is just as important as form when you get to international level.
  13. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Although it appears Watson won't be bowling in the next test match anyway, I believe it is time for him to move down the order, as his bowling has been so important of late. Keep him going longer by offering a lower order spot and the chance to rest his body after a fielding innings. It seems Marsh is definitely out though, so it might give one of the younger guys a reprieve.

    1. Warner
    2. Khawaja
    3. Ponting
    4. Clarke
    5. Watson
    6. Hussey
    7. Haddin (I'd have Paine if he was fit - seems he is now out for 4 months)
    8. Siddle
    9. Harris
    10. Pattinson
    11. Lyon

    There is a temptation to pick Dan Christian to offer another bowling option, which I am sure we will need vs the Indians. I see Hussey and Warner doing quite a few short spells otherwise. I wonder if Clarke is ok to bowl again?
  14. sooty Stan Wickham (3)

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    There was talk today of Hussey opening
    With that in mind i would like to see this
    Cowan
    Hussey
    Warner- reckon with Hussey opening it will need another opener at 3
    Kwaja
    Clarke
    Watson
    Haddin
    Siddle
    Pattinson
    Harris( if fit) if not - Cutting
    Lyon
  15. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Didn't Pat Howard quit his ARU job because he was going back to a family business (and because he was meant to be able to work out of Brisbane)? It seems things must have changed for him to get the cricket job - it also seems very strange for a rugby player to get it.
  16. RugbyReg George Smith (75)

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    he wasn't going to a family business by any means.

    And he was going back to work in Brisbane. Which he still does. Works at AB Oval where the ARU Centre of Excellence is. Obviously travels a bit, but is based in Vegas.
  17. AngrySeahorse Peter Sullivan (51)

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    Interesting comments on who should play. I would drop Punter (it's sad but.) & I'd keep Hussey. Hughes has done the right thing to pull out of the 20/20 to focus on his technique.

    Unfortunately regardless of who we field I think India is going to have us on toast, going by what I saw v NZ. Hope I'm proved wrong.

    On the plus side when Cummings is fit I think both him & Pattinson could be a really good combo going forward. I just hope their wicket hauls werent the test cricket version of 'beginners luck'.
  18. GaffaCHinO Greg Davis (50)

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    So the Australian Batters will take part in a batting camp in the lead up to the boxing day test.

    Sounds abit like a Scrum camp and we know how well they work :-\
  19. mark_s Chilla Wilson (44)

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    So Cowan has racked up a hundred in the chairman XI game V india. Has to be a certainty for boxing day now. Khawaja and Hughes both scored in the 20s and Warner failed all together. Warner will obvious open, Khawaja's spot now will surely come down to whether Watson is fit. I am presuming Marsh will be injured.
  20. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    So I've had a bit of a rethink, and would play this side on Boxing Day:

    Cowan
    Warner
    Khawaja
    Watson
    Clarke
    Christian
    Haddin
    Harris (if 100% fit, if not then Starc)
    Siddle
    Pattinson
    Lyon

    I think it is better balanced. Also gives both Punter and Hussey the flick, so we can start building for the next Ashes. When Watson can bowl again Christian drops out and Marsh comes in at 3. Khawaja pushes to 4, Clarke stays at 5 and Watson bats at 6.

    Happy days.


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