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Cricket Summer 2017/18

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Up the Guts

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Quick Hands said:
The fact that none of those involved in the whole sorry mess seem to have stopped and said:
a) this is a really dumb idea
b) this is morally wrong
c) this is cheting
d) we're going to get caught because there's 30 cameras all focussed on us
e) all of the above

indicates that there's not too much intelligence possessed by any of them and even less honour and common decency.

Very, very sad on so many levels.
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That they had such little regard for the consequences I'm starting to think ball-tampering is more common than most people think (i.e. somewhat routinely practised by teams around the world to some degree or another) and they didn't think twice about doing it. Of course, the fact that others do it is no excuse but it might explain the level of thought that went into it.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Up the Guts said:
That they had such little regard for the consequences I'm starting to think ball-tampering is more common than most people think (i.e. somewhat routinely practised by teams around the world to some degree or another) and they didn't think twice about doing it. Of course, the fact that others do it is no excuse but it might explain the level of thought that went into it.
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I've read a lot of articles on this over the past 2 days. A common thread is the high volume of anecdotal evidence going back some way of just that - at all levels of the game. I think the wet lettuce leaf approach of the ICC over recent years would seem to support this - they know it happens, they would rather it didn't, but they can / will do as little about it.
Despite this, and I indicated earlier that this makes not a jot of difference to the level of the offence here, the arrogance / stupidity and collusion here hands the ICC a free hit off a no-ball. Whatever Smith, Warner and Bancroft get is all on them.
 
Up the Guts

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
cyclopath said:
I've read a lot of articles on this over the past 2 days. A common thread is the high volume of anecdotal evidence going back some way of just that - at all levels of the game.
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My mate has told me that in the competition he plays in the home team is given custody of the ball to bring back the next week and, while the umpires give it a visual check to make sure it hasn't been tampered with, the trick is to put it in the freezer to draw out the moisture while the ball appears to be in an unchanged condition. In my schoolboy days we were trialled over a series of net sessions and it was common practice to apply a razor blade to one side of a ball and sunscreen to another before trials to better your chance of selection. So I think the average park cricketer around the world will probably be more shocked that the team went about tampering in such a visible way than they will be shocked that ball tampering occurs at international level. Which is why the whole scandal may well die once the 24 hour news media cycle and mediocre politicians are done with it and the average cricket fan will forget it.
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Up the Guts

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
The torpedo

The torpedo

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Also worth noting that Moises Henriques speculated on twitter that there is no leadership group and Smith made that up
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think the leadership group comment was to suggest that Dave Warner was involved without just saying the vice-captain (which would have been as good as naming him).

Clearly Smith should have just shouldered the blame at that press conference and said that he made the decision as captain. It would have come out anyway that Warner was involved.

I don't hold much sympathy for Bancroft. People are saying how disgraceful it is that they got the least experienced member of the team to carry it out and certainly it was disgraceful but Bancroft is a 25 year old who has been a professional cricketer for a number of years. It is not like he would have had any doubt that what he was doing was entirely wrong.

Too often in all walks of society we want to provide excuses for the actions of young men in particular that they didn't know better as if they are small children.
 
Up the Guts

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
The torpedo said:
Also worth noting that Moises Henriques speculated on twitter that there is no leadership group and Smith made that up
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Yes, it's been reported that Warner came up with the idea and Smith foolishly agreed so there's some speculation that at least initially the plan might have been for Smith to ensure that the spotlight wasn't on Warner as the ICC ruled that after the stairwell incident any further infringement from him would see him suspended.

Obviously they severely underestimated how much attention this was going to get if they thought they could just blame an arbitrary group so Warner and/or Smith could escape.

Braveheart81 said:
I don't hold much sympathy for Bancroft. People are saying how disgraceful it is that they got the least experienced member of the team to carry it out and certainly it was disgraceful but Bancroft is a 25 year old who has been a professional cricketer for a number of years. It is not like he would have had any doubt that what he was doing was entirely wrong.
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Perhaps if it was Renshaw who is what 20 or 21 or Pat Cummins when he toured at 18 then more of a case for the young guy being intimidated into doing something could be made but as you say at 25 Bancroft is not a hell of a lot younger than Smith himself.
 
I like to watch

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
^^^^^yep, there are no Ozzie victims in this.
Bancroft was just about to sign a $600k contract with ACB, he's no school leaver with no experience of the world.
Sugar in his pockets in the Ashes series,suggests this was no one off.
 
One eyed pirate

One eyed pirate

Ward Prentice (10)
Smith and co did the wrong thing but the Australian public, Prime Minister and ex PM (and therefore Cricket Aust) are blowing this all out of proportion. Ball tampering happens......a lot. interestingly, a quick review of recent cases of ball tampering shows that the South Africans are the worst offenders. Recently Faf and Philander have been charged with ball tampering. Nobody resigned. Nobody was banned. I dont think they even missed any matches at all. No doubt they did the wrong thing but the Australian media, public, PM and ex PM and others are hugely naive. Deliberating throwing the ball short of the wicket keeper to scuff the ball on the alternate pitches is ball tampering. This is not match fixing or drug taking.

It makes me wonder whether there is much more to the story. Perhaps CA has come down hard on Lehman, Smith and Warner because of the naive Aust public, media etc, and the trio have told CA to get f#4ked. Lets not forget the recent pay dispute between the senior players and CA.
 
jimmydubs

jimmydubs

Dave Cowper (27)
^^^^ I don’t think the Australian public is naive. I think they are fed up with the attitude and actions of this team and this is the straw that broke the camels back.
 
One eyed pirate

One eyed pirate

Ward Prentice (10)
jimmydubs said:
^^^^ I don’t think the Australian public is naive. I think they are fed up with the attitude and actions of this team and this is the straw that broke the camels back.
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Anyone who thinks the Australians behave worse than other teams, especially the South Africans, is also naive, or isn’t Australian.

I quote Chris Lynn on radio this morning, “...probably every professional cricketer has committed ball tampering at some stage...”

Historically, other countries don’t require the skipper/coach to resign/banned for ball tampering (for eg, sth Africa, Pakistan, England), so why does CA and the Australian public?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
One eyed pirate said:
Anyone who thinks the Australians behave worse than other teams, especially the South Africans, is also naive, or isn’t Australian.

I quote Chris Lynn on radio this morning, “.probably every professional cricketer has committed ball tampering at some stage.”

Historically, other countries don’t require the skipper/coach to resign/banned for ball tampering (for eg, sth Africa, Pakistan, England), so why does CA and the Australian public?
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We are acknowledged as the worst sledgers around but have kept arguing that we just play the game hard but we play it fair.

They have been caught rubbing a foreign object on the ball and that it was premeditated. Certainly the initial reaction was based on the seeming admission that potentially the 5 most senior players in the team had come up with the plan during a break and then tried to get the newest player in the team to carry it out. It does seem that it wasn't all of those people involved and could come out that it was actually just Warner and Bancroft.

This team has gradually made themselves more and more dislikeable with the way they behave and now this has happened. Many fans and commentators have been unhappy with the direction of the culture of this team and now that they have openly cheated it is the final straw.

I also think people see a very substantial distinction between throwing the ball in on the bounce on the square and thinking that certain lollies give your saliva a different characteristic compared with bringing a foreign object onto the field that you intend to scratch the ball with.
 
I like to watch

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
entitled is the best description.
and when you are entitled, you think the rules don't apply to you.
you think you can say what you like to whom you like.
but others can't do that to you.
the captain is only young, so they needed the coach to help drive the culture.
unfortunately he's encouraged poor behaviour.
 
jimmydubs

jimmydubs

Dave Cowper (27)
One eyed pirate said:
Anyone who thinks the Australians behave worse than other teams, especially the South Africans, is also naive, or isn’t Australian.

I quote Chris Lynn on radio this morning, “.probably every professional cricketer has committed ball tampering at some stage.”

Historically, other countries don’t require the skipper/coach to resign/banned for ball tampering (for eg, sth Africa, Pakistan, England), so why does CA and the Australian public?
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What if I don’t give a shit if other teams behave equally as bad? I’m not naive and I’m definitely Australian (despite having spent way too long in arabafriasiaeuropistan).

It’s still entitled, pathetic and boorish attitude and actions over a number of years gradually getting worse and worse.
 
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