Cricket - what to do?

[Thomond78]

Barbs, either give sources, or please - no gossip that could expose us to risks, okay?

As for India - well, I'm sorry to say it, but I've been in India while a test series has been on, and they're hysterical, screaming, irrational, crybaby bullies. Fuck 'em.

And by the way, if they though they could bully Albie Sachs, then they're idiots to boot. Albie is not a man to back down, and has proven that in the past against bigger, badder and better than these arses.

 

[Turban]

The BCCI shouldnt have even been allowed to take it this far, no doubt the ICC were relieved they backed off. Otherwise they would have had to show the world again how impotent and gutless they are.

Anyway India won the toss and are batting.
Krejza in for Clark.

Every where I've read this arvo says Clark in the team, you got a link Virgil, I'm looking for some info about it but can't find anywhere apart from snippets in blogs.

The whole Gambhir thing was just a beat up by the media. He was never going to take the field and Sachs had a go at the Aussie's too for antagonising the young fella so much. The Aussie's have maintained their record of getting one dangerous opponent banned per series. What ever happened to the good old Aussie Mantra "What happens on the field, styas on the field"?

I'm sure the Indian team and media would have turned the other cheek if someone like Symonds had elbowed Sharma...they'd be like hyenas on a carcass. Or like a team on the first chartered aeroplane outta there. And I believe the match referee is responsible for the sanctions after a game, not the other team. Then again, keep it on the field - maybe the bowler gets a free shot with the elbow at Gambhir?
I'm tired of this victim mentality from other teams about big bad Australia beating up on them. None of the teams are angels anymore, get over it and tuck the elbows in.

The Aussie's are the one's playing the victim this series. Nobody is claiming to be angels but apart from a few over zealous bowlers the Indian team are pretty striahgt laced compared to the antics of Ponting an Co.

Thom, there are wankers all over the world and India's about 25% of the world. It depends on where you go and how you treat the locals. Nagpur in particular is a very nice place and the people there are incredibly friendly. There's no need to go and slander an entire country, we've all seen the shit that comes out of Ireland about sport and nobody claims it's indicitive of the whole countries population.

And they are not bullying the ref any more than any other team, get off your fucking high horse.

 

[Pfitzy]

Nobody is claiming to be angels but apart from a few over zealous racist bowlers like Harbie the Indian team are pretty striahgt laced compared to the antics of Ponting an Co. because they know they have the BCCI trying to browbeat the rest of the world by the interesting route of supporting Mugabe's regime to get the vote they need

Fixed. And you forgot to mention the stadium(s) full of people doing monkey impersonations.... sorry, I meant praying to the monkey god :

 

[Pfitzy]

Well that's that - well played India. Showed that you're far tougher mentally than our current crop who rode on the back of the greatest pace bowler and greatest spin bowler ever to pull on the baggy green. The talent so long promised by India's massive development base is finally starting to reap rewards after years of infighting and political maneuvering. Here's hoping the knives stay in their sheaths and we see other nations aspire to such greatness.

Once again, Ponting's captaincy comes under the spotlight after he basically pulled the over rate up to save himself a ban and loss of match fees

He and his fellow selectors also made the mistake of picking White for game after game despite utter lameness, and a defensive mindset instead of the aggression that has served us so well. Hopefully a few heads roll and we see the average age of the side lowered.

 

[cyclopath]

The BCCI shouldnt have even been allowed to take it this far, no doubt the ICC were relieved they backed off. Otherwise they would have had to show the world again how impotent and gutless they are.

Anyway India won the toss and are batting.
Krejza in for Clark.

Every where I've read this arvo says Clark in the team, you got a link Virgil, I'm looking for some info about it but can't find anywhere apart from snippets in blogs.

The whole Gambhir thing was just a beat up by the media. He was never going to take the field and Sachs had a go at the Aussie's too for antagonising the young fella so much. The Aussie's have maintained their record of getting one dangerous opponent banned per series. What ever happened to the good old Aussie Mantra "What happens on the field, styas on the field"?

I'm sure the Indian team and media would have turned the other cheek if someone like Symonds had elbowed Sharma...they'd be like hyenas on a carcass. Or like a team on the first chartered aeroplane outta there. And I believe the match referee is responsible for the sanctions after a game, not the other team. Then again, keep it on the field - maybe the bowler gets a free shot with the elbow at Gambhir?
I'm tired of this victim mentality from other teams about big bad Australia beating up on them. None of the teams are angels anymore, get over it and tuck the elbows in.

The Aussie's are the one's playing the victim this series. Nobody is claiming to be angels but apart from a few over zealous bowlers the Indian team are pretty striahgt laced compared to the antics of Ponting an Co.

Thom, there are wankers all over the world and India's about 25% of the world. It depends on where you go and how you treat the locals. Nagpur in particular is a very nice place and the people there are incredibly friendly. There's no need to go and slander an entire country, we've all seen the shit that comes out of Ireland about sport and nobody claims it's indicitive of the whole countries population.

And they are not bullying the ref any more than any other team, get off your fucking high horse.

I don't recall actually saying they were, Turbs, so keep the high horse jibes to yourself. I said what if the boot was on the other foot? I made no claim Australia were blameless, but said NO team were angels. This mentality of blaming Gambhir's ban on them is rubbish. He, like Bhaji knows the rules from previous visits to the referee for similar offences and should know better than to respond to verballing with elbows. It was dumb on his part.
That said, well done India. Again, Australia go there and come up short. A shame they didn't press harder yesterday when they could, and give themselves 250-270 to chase instead. Had they drawn the series it would have been a bloody lucky escape, as they really were the second team in this comp.

 

[Cutter]

I'm with Turban on this one. After years of dishing it out, we need to learn to suck it up. The best way to deal with this stuff is to win. There are plenty of moronic Australians in cricket crowds - remember "Hadlee's a wanker"? Fortunately the kiwis didnt tar the whole country with that brush.

Ponting is a brilliant batsman, but he is and always has been lacking as a leader. Michael Hussey should be the captain. Clarke will get it, but not until the influence of Ponting and Warne is replaced by Hussey.

Good on Krejza. Its remarkable what someone who can spin the ball does on a spinning pitch. Australian pitches have become a bit homogenous in the last few years. I much prefer to know that the WACA is going to be rock hard and fast, the GABBA will have a bit of grass and be good for anyone who can swing it, the SCG will spin like a top etc That is how we develop bowlers who are suited to various conditions and batsmen who can handle those conditions.

It was a mistake to drop Clark. White or Lee, if they wanted to play two spinners, should have had a rest instead.

White, by his own admission I am sure, he seems like a top man, is the least deserving player to have played in a full series in the last 30 years. Any other nominations?

 

[Turban]

The BCCI shouldnt have even been allowed to take it this far, no doubt the ICC were relieved they backed off. Otherwise they would have had to show the world again how impotent and gutless they are.

Anyway India won the toss and are batting.
Krejza in for Clark.

Every where I've read this arvo says Clark in the team, you got a link Virgil, I'm looking for some info about it but can't find anywhere apart from snippets in blogs.

The whole Gambhir thing was just a beat up by the media. He was never going to take the field and Sachs had a go at the Aussie's too for antagonising the young fella so much. The Aussie's have maintained their record of getting one dangerous opponent banned per series. What ever happened to the good old Aussie Mantra "What happens on the field, styas on the field"?

I'm sure the Indian team and media would have turned the other cheek if someone like Symonds had elbowed Sharma...they'd be like hyenas on a carcass. Or like a team on the first chartered aeroplane outta there. And I believe the match referee is responsible for the sanctions after a game, not the other team. Then again, keep it on the field - maybe the bowler gets a free shot with the elbow at Gambhir?
I'm tired of this victim mentality from other teams about big bad Australia beating up on them. None of the teams are angels anymore, get over it and tuck the elbows in.

The Aussie's are the one's playing the victim this series. Nobody is claiming to be angels but apart from a few over zealous bowlers the Indian team are pretty striahgt laced compared to the antics of Ponting an Co.

Thom, there are wankers all over the world and India's about 25% of the world. It depends on where you go and how you treat the locals. Nagpur in particular is a very nice place and the people there are incredibly friendly. There's no need to go and slander an entire country, we've all seen the shit that comes out of Ireland about sport and nobody claims it's indicitive of the whole countries population.

And they are not bullying the ref any more than any other team, get off your fucking high horse.

I don't recall actually saying they were, Turbs, so keep the high horse jibes to yourself. I said what if the boot was on the other foot? I made no claim Australia were blameless, but said NO team were angels. This mentality of blaming Gambhir's ban on them is rubbish. He, like Bhaji knows the rules from previous visits to the referee for similar offences and should know better than to respond to verballing with elbows. It was dumb on his part.
That said, well done India. Again, Australia go there and come up short. A shame they didn't press harder yesterday when they could, and give themselves 250-270 to chase instead. Had they drawn the series it would have been a bloody lucky escape, as they really were the second team in this comp.

I was responding to this:

And by the way, if they though they could bully Albie Sachs, then they're idiots to boot. Albie is not a man to back down, and has proven that in the past against bigger, badder and better than these arses.

From Thommond.

The Indian's are far from angels. And like I said there are going to be dickheads everywhere you go who think Monkey chants are good fun. It wasn't long ago that sections of the WACA crowd where chanting Kaffir or some such racist slur at Black South african cricketters.

My problem is that the Aussie's have been visibly dishing it out for years, and winning too, and other countries have in the past complained about this behaviour and where told to suck it up and leave it on the field. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they refuse to accept the same response. I'm not condoning racism and Harbi deserved punishment for that (even if the evidence was sketchy at best), just like Aussie players have in the past.

I don't think it's fair to India as a country that one crowd will tar a nation just like it's not fair to lable Australia because of the various racist incident's that have occured at various stadiums around this country.

That said the current Dickhead per capita in the Aussie team is at an alltime high.

I agree Hussey should be the captain. Ponting is a great batsman, and will probably beat Tendulkar's record, but his captaincy is lacking (And he's a total prick).

 

[Moses]

It wasn't long ago that sections of the WACA crowd where chanting Kaffir or some such racist slur at Black South african cricketters.

Does it make it any better that they were South African ex-pats? Or how about the fact that they were caught, evicted from the ground and given life bans? The Indian monkey chanters were caught on film (an Aussie goes Bolly) yet the bcci denied anything even happened.

 

[Moses]

I blogged a few comments on over rates earlier today, thought it could be somewhat relevant..


Our over rate is a national disgrace. Ricky threw a test match in order to play New Zealand, apparently out of his love of playing for Australia. I?ve already had my say on that, now I?m going to say some more!

Ponting was fined 20% and the remainder of the team 10% of their match fees, which equates to roughly 0.05% of their annual IPL cashcow. But the really big loss was the Border-Gavaskar trophy which at tea yesterday we were a good chance to retain. I?ve read that a suspension for Ricky was not even on the table, a captain needs to be fined twice in a 12 month period for that to even be an option. Now he?s lost the test, the series, and still got the first fine.

Is 90 overs a day an unreasonable ask? So many teams seem to have trouble with this limit. After taking out drinks, wicket and injury allowances and adding the 30 minutes overtime that has become a rule rather than the exception in modern tests, the target is to bowl, on average, 15 overs an hour or 1 over every 4 minutes.

I?ve done the sums to get a better idea of just how slow we were on Day 4. By Tea we had bowled 50 overs, leaving us 10 short of the target. Of these, Krejza had 15, Johnson 13, Watson 12 and Lee 10. So with an off-spinner bowling 30% of the load, we?ve managed to drop 1 over in every 6! That is a seriously p?sspoor effort. The general consensus is that Ricky?s tri-overly field changes and general farking around between overs is killing the rate.

There are many ways to increase the over rate while still looking to take wickets - how bout bowling Simon Katich? Or Lee and Johnson off their ODI run-ups rather than the full test run-up? Why not move a bit quicker between overs? These highly pampered stars are professional sportsmen right, surely a jog from fine leg to long off every 4 minutes is not too much to ask?

Is bowling Hussey a good alternative? Sure he hides the ball when running it but who cares when it doesn?t swing? He still has a decent run-up, and I?m in no way convinced that Mike?s all that quick getting through his overs anyway, though I haven?t got out the stopwatch to be sure. Even when Ponting realised the lapse and bought on Hussey he still didn?t speed up his general farking around with the field. Is moving deep mid on 3 metres left then 4 metres right more likely to take a wicket than giving Shane Watson another over when he?s swinging both ways? One excuse I heard from Nielsen was that the quicks were tired, perhaps they could have rested in the 20 minute tea break?

The entire team was fined for this, however with our d?ckless coach I choose to blame the captain. He?s the one leading out there. He?s the one constantly moving the field. He?s the one deciding the bowling changes, and the one who could be speeding things up.

I was also under the impression that Ponting has been going through a lean patch with the bat, turns out he?s scored 997 runs in the last 12 months so I?ll let that slide, for now..

 

[Turban]

It wasn't long ago that sections of the WACA crowd where chanting Kaffir or some such racist slur at Black South african cricketters.

Does it make it any better that they were South African ex-pats? Or how about the fact that they were caught, evicted from the ground and given life bans? The Indian monkey chanters were caught on film (an Aussie goes Bolly) yet the bcci denied anything even happened.

World body to investigate racism

Cricket's world governing body the ICC has appointed India's Solicitor General Goolam Vahanvati to investigate alleged racist abuse by fans in Australia.
Players from South Africa and Sri Lanka have both been subject to abuse during their current tours.

ICC chief executive Malcolm Speed expressed his organisation's determination to stamp out the problem.

"Everyone in cricket is unhappy with the way in which players have been subjected to racist abuse," he said.

"The actions of what would seem to be a small number of people are reflecting poorly on Australia and on cricket. It is essential that this issue is addressed."

The weak-minded minority might think again if they realised they faced bans or huge fines

Cricket Australia's
James Sutherland

South Africa made an official complaint about their treatment during the recent Test series and Sri Lanka's players were targeted in a triangular VB Series match in Adelaide last week

South African players were reportedly taunted with the terms 'kaffirs' and 'kaffir boeties', derogatory terms for black people and those sympathetic to them..

Vahanvati, who looked into alleged racism in Zimbabwe in 2004, will travel to Australia to speak to Cricket Australia and ICC officials, as well as staff at grounds where incidents were reported - Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Sydney.

He will then move on to South Africa and Sri Lanka to talk to players.

Spectators were thrown out after the recent incidents but Cricket Australia chief executive James Sutherland wants authorities to have the power to ban perpetrators for life or impose heavy fines.

SA threaten boycott of Australia

"The weak-minded minority might think again if they realised they faced bans or huge fines of the type that now apply to spectators who trespass on Australian cricket arenas," he explained.

"We intend to talk to Australian federal and state governments to see if a similar approach might be possible for racist spectators."

Sri Lankan Cricket secretary Adil Hashim welcomed the move, telling the BBC: "We do not condone these kind of incidents.

"Sport bridges barriers and the last thing that should happen in it is racial divisions."

However Sri Lanka's Australian coach Tom Moody denied his players had any problems with crowds, saying: "Our guys haven't had any experience whatsoever in regards to that."

South Africa cricket board chief Gerald Majola warned on Monday that his country could boycott Australia in future if the abuse were to continue.

Captain Graeme Smith called on the ICC to follow football's lead in taking a firm line on racism.

"I think it's something that they need to - just like Fifa - be very strong on it and keep the game clean," he said.

"It's up to them to take responsibility for it. If it's happening constantly in one place then they do need to take some action."

I chose one example. And the above just shows it wasn't a one off incident on that tour. I do agree that India will have to do something should this problem persist but I honestly don't think people in India understood why Monkey was a racial insult. And if that crowd did they are just a bunch of dickheads who deserved to be turfed out. There has been no problems with the crowds since and Symonds has played there several times since.

Australia have a history which forces them to be pro-active in regards to stamping out racism in sport whereas India don't.

As to the problems with the BCCI, well their behaviour hasn't helped the Indian Teams reputation at all IMO. Nothing you can do about them thou, while they wield the money they will use it to their advatage at every oppertunity.

To be honest I'm quite sick of all this political shit, can't we just get back to the cricket?

 

[Virgil]

can't we just get back to the cricket?

Big power struggle going on off and on the pitch, India want control of both.
The BCCI are doing their best to buy everyone and everything. (see the Sri Lankan cricket board which have just been bailed out by India)
Trouble is their dominance on the field hasnt matched it off it, until now i guess. Although with all the retirements happening and about to happen its bound to be short lived.

Oh and this argument about who are the biggest prats/pricks on the field...lets call it a dead heat

 

[formeropenside]

Australia have a history which forces them to be pro-active in regards to stamping out racism in sport whereas India don't.

Care to explain this a little further, so even dumb folks like me can understand it?

 

[Turban]

Australia have a history which forces them to be pro-active in regards to stamping out racism in sport whereas India don't.

Care to explain this a little further, so even dumb folks like me can understand it?

Do you want a social commentry on Australian and Indian history?

There are some fundamental differences within the social history of the two countries. They are blindingly obvious to me. Simply put; Australia, like all western countries with a magority white population, has been forced by social pressures to demonstrate that the overt racism towards non-white minorities that existed in the past (ie. the White Australia Policy) has been removed from politics and society and anyone who displays otherwise will be harshly punished (ie. Racist abuse at televised sporting events). The government is still essencially the same but their policy has changed dramatically because of a desire to demonstrate the new social equality of the nation.

India on the other hand, having gained independance from a government which was overtly racist towards the native non-white magority, have no need to demonstrate a removal of racist policy because it is demonstrated by the removal of said government and it's replacement by a government representative of the magority. They also have far more importance social issues to deal with.

 

[formeropenside]

Australia have a history which forces them to be pro-active in regards to stamping out racism in sport whereas India don't.

Care to explain this a little further, so even dumb folks like me can understand it?

Do you want a social commentry on Australian and Indian history?

There are some fundamental differences within the social history of the two countries. They are blindingly obvious to me. Simply put; Australia, like all western countries with a magority white population, has been forced by social pressures to demonstrate that the overt racism towards non-white minorities that existed in the past (ie. the White Australia Policy) has been removed from politics and society and anyone who displays otherwise will be harshly punished (ie. Racist abuse at televised sporting events). The government is still essencially the same but their policy has changed dramatically because of a desire to demonstrate the new social equality of the nation.

India on the other hand, having gained independance from a government which was overtly racist towards the native non-white magority, have no need to demonstrate a removal of racist policy because it is demonstrated by the removal of said government and it's replacement by a government representative of the magority. They also have far more importance social issues to deal with.

Like the more or less colour based caste system?

 

[Sully]

Okay 2 things
Majority is spelt with a J and the caste system is not based on colour or raced and has been banned by the Indian Government.

 

[Pfitzy]

Interesting you say that Sully - there is a show on SBS right now called "Cooking In The Danger Zone" where the host visits some of the most dirt-poor areas of India where dalits are still treated like shit, despite the supposed abolishment of this sort of thing. Thousands of years is hard to give up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit

 

[Sully]

I agree the caste system is still around just like a lot of White Australian are still racists. What I was pointing out was that their Government has abolished it just like our government has laws against Racism

 

[formeropenside]

Latest conspiracy theory I heard was that the BCCI told CA that Symonds would not be welcome in India, so rather than go over the D'Olivera affair again (and since the BCCI has the money) the "gone fishing" scheme was cooked up and Symonds made to play along.

It actually explains a bit, like how Symonds is being rushed back in the Oz side despite poor domestic performances, and the vague references to his "off-field process" to go through.

It also did seem strange to me that Ponting and Clarke - previously supporters of Symonds - came down on him.

Of course, its probably all crap and Symonds just pissed a few people in the team off and then went fishing on an day off only to miss a hurriedly called team meeting, resulting in the ban.

 

[Turban]

Latest conspiracy theory I heard was that the BCCI told CA that Symonds would not be welcome in India, so rather than go over the D'Olivera affair again (and since the BCCI has the money) the "gone fishing" scheme was cooked up and Symonds made to play along.

It actually explains a bit, like how Symonds is being rushed back in the Oz side despite poor domestic performances, and the vague references to his "off-field process" to go through.

It also did seem strange to me that Ponting and Clarke - previously supporters of Symonds - came down on him.

Of course, its probably all crap and Symonds just pissed a few people in the team off and then went fishing on an day off only to miss a hurriedly called team meeting, resulting in the ban.

And Symonds turned up against Bangladesh after the BCCI spiked his drinks?

 

[Turban]

Australia have a history which forces them to be pro-active in regards to stamping out racism in sport whereas India don't.

Care to explain this a little further, so even dumb folks like me can understand it?

Do you want a social commentry on Australian and Indian history?

There are some fundamental differences within the social history of the two countries. They are blindingly obvious to me. Simply put; Australia, like all western countries with a magority white population, has been forced by social pressures to demonstrate that the overt racism towards non-white minorities that existed in the past (ie. the White Australia Policy) has been removed from politics and society and anyone who displays otherwise will be harshly punished (ie. Racist abuse at televised sporting events). The government is still essencially the same but their policy has changed dramatically because of a desire to demonstrate the new social equality of the nation.

India on the other hand, having gained independance from a government which was overtly racist towards the native non-white magority, have no need to demonstrate a removal of racist policy because it is demonstrated by the removal of said government and it's replacement by a government representative of the magority. They also have far more importance social issues to deal with.

Like the more or less colour based caste system?

You asked for an explaination of my comments, I polietly obliged. Where did I say India DIDN'T have huge social issues to deal with.

If you just want to continuously have an illinformed 'dig' at Indian society can you do it elsewhere. I'm not having a go at Aussie society, merely stating the facts. If you disagree with my opinion you could explain yourself rather than trying to turn this into a tit-for-tat argument about which country has the biggest social problems.

The caste system is a terrible thing but it's not going to dissappear over night. It's an incredibly complex social system.