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Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

Hugh Jarse

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
To be fair $45 m was unable to buy more than one voyage when they were bidding to hold the DiveBall World Cup in Australia.

That is some wall pissing of government money from Frank Lowey and his team.

How much goverment money does the ARU get? Our $40+m wall pissing from RWC 03 was our own money,
 
Dalai Ninja

Dalai Ninja

Ward Prentice (10)
I think it's worth noting that participation isn't actually declining. 267,463 participants were involved in more than five games or structured sessions in 2015, reflecting an increase of 10.7% or 25,866 new participants. There was a 7.6% decline in Club XVs participation. However, there was a growth of 8.1% in Club Sevens. VIVA7s was launched in 2015 with over 3,023 new players across 36 centres. The number of WA Club XVs teams increased by 67% (and the WA U15s won the Junior Gold Cup while the U17s were runners-up). South Australia, Victoria and Northern Territory achieved an overall growth of 34.2% in Rugby participation, largely through Game On and VIVA7s. Female participation in Sevens increased by 33.4% to 4,012, while 1,594 women played in traditional the fifteen-a-side format. Half of Game On and VIVA7s participants were female.

All very positive. It'll be interesting to see how the 2016 numbers evolve.

One likely takeout is that Club Sevens and VIVA7 probably drew players away from Club XVs.

http://www.aru.com.au/MediaReleases...ticipation-Through-Strategic-Initiatives.aspx
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
Dalai Ninja said:
I think it's worth noting that participation isn't actually declining.
Click to expand...


I had a look at the participation numbers in the annual reports from 1998 to 2012 when you could still compare (they seemed to present the registered player numbers and not just a survey as they do now).

Excluded the schools and golden oldies which seemed a bit "rubbery"

There were massive increases across the country, especially in junior numbers in WA and Victoria. Queensland had really strong growth, even NSW junors had a nice increase.

The area of weakest growth (other than the marked decline in Territory players) was NSW seniors. This might be expected as it was somewhat of a saturated market even in 1998, but it also might explain so much of the angst in Sydney these days......
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
The problem was Barbarian the RWC windfall wasn't as big as many seem to make out.

The ARU made $40M from hosting the RWC, but due to a $10M operating deficit due to the RWC, we only netted $30M.

Not much more than the Lions tour.

60% of that was basically needed to cover the 2007 and 2011 RWC losses.

We now get compensation, but we lose more as our revenue we lose out on is now higher.
 
mst

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Dalai Ninja said:
I think it's worth noting that participation isn't actually declining. 267,463 participants were involved in more than five games or structured sessions in 2015, reflecting an increase of 10.7% or 25,866 new participants. There was a 7.6% decline in Club XVs participation. However, there was a growth of 8.1% in Club Sevens. VIVA7s was launched in 2015 with over 3,023 new players across 36 centres. The number of WA Club XVs teams increased by 67% (and the WA U15s won the Junior Gold Cup while the U17s were runners-up). South Australia, Victoria and Northern Territory achieved an overall growth of 34.2% in Rugby participation, largely through Game On and VIVA7s. Female participation in Sevens increased by 33.4% to 4,012, while 1,594 women played in traditional the fifteen-a-side format. Half of Game On and VIVA7s participants were female.

All very positive. It'll be interesting to see how the 2016 numbers evolve.

One likely takeout is that Club Sevens and VIVA7 probably drew players away from Club XVs.

http://www.aru.com.au/MediaReleases...ticipation-Through-Strategic-Initiatives.aspx
Click to expand...
I have to say being in the capital where the ability to spin absolute BS in to something tangible and plausible is a revered skill, even I am impressed with the term "structured session" and even more so they quantified it. BRAVO!

So what actually is it? 5 parts of a school rugby promo day? 5 games in a one day Sevens competition? Do the Rugby tots count?
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
People always complain about how the numbers are calculated and claim it is inflating figures but it would be lunacy for the ARU to do something different to other sports.

The reality is it's hard to be involved in 5 or more 'structured sessions' of something and not really be a participant in that sport.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Yeah exactly BH.

Some people seem to act like the ARU calculate these figures to deliberately trick the rugby fans.

The ARU calculate them the same way as all other codes do though. They all try and boost their numbers any legitimate way possible in order to appeal to sponsors, government grants, etc.

BTW I read yesterday that Vic Rugby recorded participation numbers of something like 4,500 for 2016. It was about a 10% increase on the back of new junior club rugby players.

Currently senior participation is about 25% of Sydney.
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Yeah you always have to ignore the raw number, but take notice of the % change year on year.

The numbers are dodgy as hell, but they have always been that way. The % change either way is the one thing the ARU can't really doctor.
.
 
I like to watch

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Some people read the numbers and know they are a fantasy.
the old excuse "all the other kids are doing it" has never been acceptable.
people see zero input into juniors from the ARU,they see numbers diminish in the comps their kids participate in.
Then they read the ARU's perspective, is that everything is rosy,and contrary to what they see,the game is growing strongly.

but I'll acknowledge the numbers quoted by TWAS are a good result.
TWAS what is the ARU doing in that market to deliver these increases in participation?
 
mst

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Braveheart81 said:
People always complain about how the numbers are calculated and claim it is inflating figures but it would be lunacy for the ARU to do something different to other sports.

The reality is it's hard to be involved in 5 or more 'structured sessions' of something and not really be a participant in that sport.
Click to expand...
The press release identifies the data is competition and non- competition participants. The measure of participants is not broken down in to player / non- player which is consistent with government high level reporting. There less publicly available figures that provided breakdown from Ray Morgan ( kids rates) as well as ABS data. The key filter that needs to be applied is that participation rates (adults) has declined 5% since 2 yrs ago and you need to factor in the population increase in that time to get the real measure. So in English it's school based non-competion activities the represent the increase in sports.

Otherwise the ABS and Sport Commission have it massively wrong.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
But ILTW you are missing the point.

The whole purpose of keeping and publishing the numbers is to appeal to government grants and sponsorship.

What good does it serve calculate your numbers at a way that we all may consider more accurate, but as a result puts you at a disadvantage to the other codes when appealing to sponsors and government grants?

The ARU aren't trying to fool you and I. They are counting on the same metric as the AFL, NRL, etc. to compete for funds.

To me it is the height of lunacy to get caught up on this as some grand elaborate scheme for the ARU just trying to convince it's fans that the game is going well. If that was the case they just wouldn't publish numbers and then we'd never hear the negative parts like reductions in club players, etc.

As for Vic. What are the ARU doing? Nothing.

That's what the VRU are here and granted funds for........ When was the last time you saw Malcolm Turnbull come down to fix a pothole in your street?
 
Scrubber2050

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Train
the trouble with Malcolm is that he doesn't seem to know how to fix anything, let alone a pothole. They probably don't get them in flash Sydney suburbs
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Haha thanks Scrubber but I was more talking about the prospect of personally undertaking work that is in the municipality of a local government.
 
Strewthcobber

Strewthcobber

Mark Ella (57)
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
A few interesting perspective's on football and other sports' fees:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...bout-club-funding-models-20161103-gsh8pd.html

This appears to talk about JGC type levels of junior football.

However a former Sydney club team manager, who has asked not to be named, alleges that youth registration fees are being shifted to senior adult programs to pay for player wages, coaches' wages, equipment and dinners.
Click to expand...
..........
"If you pay $2400 for your kids' program, you expect it all to be spent on your kids' program. But an enormous margin is being creamed off to the first team," he said.
..........
However the former team manager says he has seen some costings for youth and children's programs inflated by up to 50 per cent when financial reports are submitted.
"In turn, the coach and player wages and other expenses for the first grade team are under-reported to make it look like the money is being spent properly ... but it's not audited."
Click to expand...


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/ju...t/news-story/e07f28ec41973fbc0fe15e93ac2d6811

State League 4 outfit Point Cook — where Diego’s daughter plays in the under-11s — billed parents $350 for 7-11 year olds and $400 for 12-18 year olds in 2015.
Click to expand...
Diego, a commentator with the Four Diegos — a soccer radio show on SEN — said the sport had become too expensive for parents.
“The issue with soccer (clubs) is they’re pricing themselves out of greater participation,” he said.
“My daughter can play two seasons of netball, 12 months of the year, for $160 a season — that’s including kit and we don’t have to pay affiliation fees.
“A whole summer of little athletics, 16 or 17 weeks, costs probably $180 to $200.”
..........
State League clubs are billed $320 for the first junior team in each age group and $160 for subsequent teams as well as an $86 registration fee per player.
Click to expand...


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...d/news-story/c3c942ab408605443c16b79785fd799c

[quote]At popular north-eastern club Campbelltown City, junior registrations are $850 for this coming season, which includes home and away uniforms.
Registration fees vary from club to club, depending on demand for places and operational and equipment costs as well as the club’s senior structure — including paid staff, players and credentialed coaches across all grades.
The $850 registration is almost double the nearest rival sport surveyed by the Sunday Mail, which is the $445 charge levied by basketball.
..........
HOW DO THEY COMPARE

SOCCER
ALEX CUPKOVIC
Age: 14
Club: Campbelltown City
Registration: $850
Uniform: Home-and-away kit of shorts, socks, jerseys and a training ball included in the registration fee.
Boots: $400 (2 x pairs)
Shin guards: $50 (2 x pairs)

AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL
Kane Godlevsky
Age: 15
Club: Henley Sharks
Registration: $170
Uniforms: Guernsey supplied to be returned to the club at the end of the season. Must purchase home and away shorts, a pair of socks and club polo: $95.
Boots: $100-$200
Mouthguard: $30

BASKETBALL
Sarah Hart
Age: 11
Club: Norwood Flames
Registration: $445
Uniforms: $290 for uniform, warm-up top, club hoody and socks.
Shoes: $150
skipping rope, two balls (indoor and outdoor), club bag, mouthguard: $277
Game fees: – $10 a week

NETBALL
Olivia Dowd
Age: 13
Registration: $400, includes training top.
Uniform: $100.
Zip up hoodie: $50.
Shoes: $200.
Family pass to stadium: $260 (two adults, two players).[/quote]

Based on how expensive rugby is and how it's killing participation, I can only assume that these sports with their exorbitantly high fees will be dying shortly also.
 
WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
I popped into my local Subway yesterday to grab some lunch and happened to be there when three Auskick blokee walked in the door, ordered and sat at the table just in front of me. Something I noticed straight away is how young these guys were. So I asked. Turns out the oldest had just turned 20 and was in his third year of an Exercise Science degree at Uni. All three of them were. In our brief chat they told me that they worked for the program part time and that this was actually quite a common thing.

They were all AFL fans but they had the program marketed to them as a valuable source of work experience that would complement their degrees. I didn't ask them how much they were earning but it's certainly an interesting model and considering the army of DO's the AFL have looks to be very well devised.

I think if true this would be a very interesting model for the ARU to look at.
 
WorkingClassRugger

WorkingClassRugger

David Codey (61)
RugbyReg said:
The Reds use casual staff to deliver Rookies 2 Reds, positioning it similarly
Click to expand...


Any idea on how many of them they have on the books? After talking to them I couldn't help but think that it would be a solid model for the ARU to emulate. Especially when it comes to cost. You could essentially have one full time DO acting as a regional manager of a number of part time or even scholarship student using it as a means of gaining vital work experience through Uni/Tafe.
 
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