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Drugs in sport

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by barbarian, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    the Cronulla pragmatic approach worked out being a much better strategy.
    Egos will fuck you up every time....
  2. p.Tah John Thornett (49)

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    If Cronulla had the budget I think they would gave done the same as Essendon, but they had no cash for an extensive legal appeal. They were backed into a corner.
    I recall at the start how everyone praised the AFLs swiftness in their action whilst the NRL flounded.
  3. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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  4. Highlander35 Paul McLean (56)

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    Problem is the AFL tried to play funny buggers.

    By punishing the club quite early, then dragging on the player trials they'd hoped to avoid all player suspensions and avoid compromising the integrity of the competition for 2 seasons, which would devalue the comp in the eyes of Broadcasters.

    Rather than just bite the bullet, give an 18 month suspension, and ideally get it over with quickly and hopefully have not appealed by ASADA for two years bans, there's been an additional 12 months of appeals up in the air, then a season wrecked anyway, albeit one probably less so due to the loss of an additional 5 or so players off their lists to trades, delisting and retirement.
  5. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    I'm not sure about that.
    I have just watched an interview with the AFL CEO (McLachlan?) - very impressive bloke - he says that the players were entitled to take the course they did because the whole case was circumstantial.
    It would follow that the AFL were caught between the player's conviction as to their innocence and the desire for a swift resolution.
    The circumstances only emerge from a reading of the Award. For those who can be bothered reading it i would be interested to read what they make of the missing links (or strands) in the evidence.
    The critical reasoning seems to be that Dank proposed the use of Thymosin Beta 4 because of its regenerative properties. The players were injected with Thymosin. There is more than one type of Thymosin and not all types are on the WADA banned list. Effectively there would have been no point in Dank injecting anything other than TB4. Therefore he probably injected TB4.
    But there seems to be evidence that the players and Hird sought assurances as to the legality of the program. The circumstance said to militate against that conclusion seem to revolve around the secrecy actively maintained by the players - which the players ascribe to a desire to stop other clubs getting the stuff and negating the Bombers' advantage.
    The CAS instead took the maintenance of this secrecy as evidence of consciousness of guilt and i gather that precluded the discounts etc on sanction. Most (all bar 1) of the players did not declare having taken anything and that counted against them.
    I think I have heard things like this described as a clusterfuck.
    Spieber likes this.
  6. Tex Ken Catchpole (46)

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    Hird will probably recoup his legal bills with the release of his tell-all memoir in a few years.

    Thanks for the insight IS.
  7. The_Brown_Hornet Michael Lynagh (62)

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    Again, what a clusterfuck this has turned out to be. The AFL has made a complete mess of it and now it's blown up even bigger than they would have imagined. As a Carlton man, I should permit myself a chuckle at the Bombers plight, but strangely I'm not.
  8. Teh Other Dave Trevor Allan (34)

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    Inside Shoulder - the trouble is that they were asked whilst testing if they had taken supplements or injections, which they denied. Not a good look.

    Another important thing that has already been mentioned, is that athletes who register for a sport that is signatory to WADA (including Rugby and Australian Rules Football) acknowledge that they are solely responsible for what substances are administered to them. Check your ARU paperwork when you register and pay subs this season. These guys are/were professionals. What they put in their bodies affects their livelihoods. David Zaharakis refused to participate in the programme.

    I do feel for some of the young players, especially those on the fringes, because they doubtless would have felt pressure from Hird and Watson to participate, and Dank would have said 'this shit is cutting edge and not covered by WADA yet.' The fringe players who were dropped by Essendon after the story broke in 2013 would have had no hope of being picked up by another club, they would have been deemed as contingent liabilities. But again, they signed an agreement that they were to comply with WADA's code, and they acknowledged that they are solely responsible for what they ate/drank/injected/took as a suppository.

    Edit: Mixed David Zaharakis with Adam Ramanauskas
  9. Teh Other Dave Trevor Allan (34)

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    On top of that, I don't know what the AFL were thinking in handing on some incredibly watered down sanctions. Surely they would have known that ASADA would come gunning for them, followed by WADA.
  10. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    But who was the driving force behind this? It appears to have been Hird. He comes out looking like a reckless win at all costs prick.

    But I have limited sympathy for the players as well. These young guys are thoroughly educated to check what they're taking and a hotline to call if unsure.

    They then while being in competition tested, lied to the testers that they weren't taking any other supplements. This is the chickens coming home to roost.
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  11. Slim 293 George Gregan (70)

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    What was the timing of the alleged doping?

    In 2012 Essendon were killing it, 8-1 and second on the table.....

    And then they lost 10 of the next 13 matches......

    I'm curious as to what effect the drugs had on their performance that year, particularly the sudden drop in form.
  12. Highlander35 Paul McLean (56)

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    What seems to be the leading theory is that they got big too fast, leading to a good run of early wins where the big bodies and youthful energy got them home, before a string of immature leg muscle injuries took hold of the side. At least that was the conjecture offered when the Thymosin doping was first suggested.
  13. Runner Nev Cottrell (35)

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    How many people get to punish the players and how often. Were they not penalised already? So after the appeals more additional penalties are added. I'm a bit confused about that.

    Also the club convictions were WH&S breaches I suspected for not having a safe workplace.
  14. Jets Tony Shaw (54)

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    If the initial punishment was deemed to soft then WADA has every right to push for harsher punishments. Like others have mentioned previously it's up to the players to take charge of what goes in their bodies. They have the ASADA hotline that they can call and check if everything is ok. It would have been easy to call it and have it documented that they asked the question, yet no one did.
    Also I don't take the line that they didn't want to ask questions as they didn't want other clubs to find out about this new supplement.
    It will be interesting to see what happens to the club now from a sponsorship point of view. I would want any company I was working for to be associated with them.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Runner likes this.
  15. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    I did mention that and I see the point.
    But these are young blokes with varying insights into the big wide world. Hird is not. Dank is not.
    And I'd be a lot less perturbed by the outcome if I thought all athletes in all countries and all sports were likely to be, or had been, treated the same way.
    Yet again the ASADA head has politicised it by expressing his personal moral views.
    Lindsay Tanner and the Essendon CEO fronted a news conference yesterday (gee I'm spending a lot of time on a game I dont even like!) and said that they had contact from Fuji who were sticking by them.
    Have to say it is a very interesting contrast between the class of the AFL administrators and the NRL administrators - the former seem uniformly level headed and sensible people, a fact not reflected in the outcomes achieved by each code in this debacle (as Rex Mossop would have said).
    And now the leader of the Greens is calling for a review of ASADA's powers - not sure if he wants them to have more or less:confused:
  16. waiopehu oldboy Tim Horan (67)

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    Two Kiwis players, including the captain, busted for cocaine possession after the Loig Test on Saturday night (both have now been dropped from the Kiwis & stood down from their NRL Clubs), three days after former Kiwi Sean Kenny-Dowell got busted for the same thing.


    Cue all sorts of Loig people (not to mention the NZ Ministers of Sport & Rec, and Health (same bloke, actually)) wringing their hands about how terrible it all is, full-on Maude Flanders mode, when as far as I can ascertain it's pretty rife in top-level sports (Ali Williams & James O'Connor, for example) & the wider community or at least the younger & wealthier parts thereof.
  17. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    As an outsider perhaps you can explain how it is that loig in this country seems to do better when it has scandals - is that our convict heritage?
  18. waiopehu oldboy Tim Horan (67)

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    Add Cronulla Sharks chairman Damian Keogh to the substance-bust list:


    I'm really not sure about that but I suspect it has to do with the code being so big (in NSW & Qld, anyway) & the media not really going for the jugular when someone messes up. Instead it gets the "boys will be boys" or at worst "one bad apple" treatment. Pretty similar to what happens re. Union in NZ, really.
  19. Inside Shoulder Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    I think the ARU board might hope for a cocaine drug bust - but its a stimulant so there can't be any suggestion of our players having used it

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