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daz
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Drugs in sport
- Thread starter barbarian
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For the record, it isn't me!
I don't need to ask for help with my location; I know where I am.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
The Tahs and Wallabies might have been drugged to the eyeballs for the last 2 years - but at least they dont take performance enhancing drugs
Aussie D
Dick Tooth (41)
Which story? I read the main article and didn't see anyone named.
As a completely random aside, a friend of mine who loves music and doesn't like sport posted on facebook:
thierry dusautoir
Alan Cameron (40)
lance armstrong getting busted is definitely going to be the beginning of a big number of high profile stars the world over being caught as people will not want the same thing to happen again.
Sidbarret
Fred Wood (13)
I'll have nibble.
Steyn isn't the sort of big that you get from a vile, he's the sort of big you get from a fast food wrapper. Habana wears too much padding, he's actually pretty small.
I think you have have Beast and Smit mixed up with Rhalapele and Bjorn Basson who tested positive for banned stimulant at the end of year tour in 2010. A inquiry found that the energy drink that the team used was tainted. The team had been using the South African manufactured drink all season and it was certified clean. On tour they used the British manufactured version that turned out to contain trace amounts a banned stimulant.
If you are going to level allegations against others, you should atlease have some evidense, I will now demostrate - http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/25/1027497382551.html
dangerousdave
Frank Nicholson (4)
That's even more of a problem, nobody has the resources or the money to test the thousands of players in club rugby, many "supplements" are relatively cheap. As long as you're not dumb enough to post it to your own address and pay by credit card then it seems like it would be fairly easy to cheat. Everybody needs to remember that the only way to truly test athletes is random out of competion *no notice* drug tests. Anything less can be beaten by timing your doping properly. Even out of competition tests can be beaten by lying about your whereabouts. The WADA policy is that you get two "no shows" before any sanctions apply, that is where the testers turn up at your supposed location and you're not there. I'm not sure that procedures for non-olympic sports in this country would even be that strict. Do the testers always do their OOC tests at preseason camp? Time for some training in the mountains, etc.
Think about how many tests have to be conducted to ensure (for example) that a base of 1000 athletes are clean. You have to test them multiple times per year and the cost of each test could be quite high if you have to drive out to their summer holiday house at Timbuktu, plus Lab costs, administration etc. At $500 per test (no idea on lab costs, but OOC testing will take man-hours) and only testing each athlete ONCE OOC per year that would be half a million dollars a year. There are many thousands of athletes on the cusp of professional and Olympic sports in Australia every year.
Additionally, there is arguably more incentive for people to dope on the fringes of professional sport. If you've decided to dedicate a few years of your life getting into a S15, NRL or AFL team then it might be worth a couple of thousand dollars a year worth it to give you the leg up you need to the glory/gravy train.
And on a related note,
There is an IRB report toting how many OOC tests they conducted in the lead up to the world cup. But if all of these tests were conducted at team training camps and hotels where athletes might expect to be tested then perhaps the number of tests isn't as important as the methodology for conducting them.
IRB report: http://www.irbkeeprugbyclean.com/downloads/reports/AntiDoping2011.pdf
T
TOCC
Guest
There are drugs out there which aren't illegal in Australia yet it's inevitable they will be banned in the long term, currently they get distributed with "for testing only" and "not for human consumption" buried within the finer print. All distrusted via the Internet under non-existent import permits, this is also where the bikie gang suggestion(the daily telegraph) comes into play.
Also people need to look further then just the 'adding size' philosophy, there is a wide range of different strains of drugs/stimulants these days which focus on different parts of the body...
GHRP6 which is the one the rugby player were caught with is a weight gainer, it's stimulates muscle development but also dramatically increases the appetite. Whilst suitable to rugby union forwards, it's not suited for a AFL player or rugby outside back. GHRP2 on the other hand :/
Other drugs within the Peptide stream have shown benefits in muscle recovery and injury rehabilitation, this may appeal to a player who has been injury prone, recovering from an injury or suffering ongoing issues like tendinitis/shin splints.
And the finally you have drugs which enhance endurance, this is what may appeal to an AFL player and maybe even some triathletes(cough cough).
Some of these are also very difficult to test for, rather then introducing HGH into the body which is easily identifiable these days, they encourage the body to increase its own production of HGH.. Your standard piss tests won't identify this.
Also people need to look further then just the 'adding size' philosophy, there is a wide range of different strains of drugs/stimulants these days which focus on different parts of the body...
GHRP6 which is the one the rugby player were caught with is a weight gainer, it's stimulates muscle development but also dramatically increases the appetite. Whilst suitable to rugby union forwards, it's not suited for a AFL player or rugby outside back. GHRP2 on the other hand :/
Other drugs within the Peptide stream have shown benefits in muscle recovery and injury rehabilitation, this may appeal to a player who has been injury prone, recovering from an injury or suffering ongoing issues like tendinitis/shin splints.
And the finally you have drugs which enhance endurance, this is what may appeal to an AFL player and maybe even some triathletes(cough cough).
Some of these are also very difficult to test for, rather then introducing HGH into the body which is easily identifiable these days, they encourage the body to increase its own production of HGH.. Your standard piss tests won't identify this.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
It should be no surprise that doping is rife in sport other than cycling. Take the Operation Puerto case for instance, particularly the other athletes section:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Puerto#Other_athletes
Reportedly, the Spanish authorities covered up to protect football and tennis players, not to mention they locked the evidence and wouldn't let any external doping authorities test the DNA in the blood bags.
How this will play out in Australia will be really interesting.
The whole big question is really: is there systemised doping organised by teams, or is individuals or small groups of people only?
If it is the former (as was, or maybe still is, the case in cycling), then it is a big scandal indeed. One common thread among doping cases though is the lengths that the involved parties will go to to main the omerta.
I hope that we do not have team sponsored doping here. But, I wouldn't be surprised if we did, either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Puerto#Other_athletes
Reportedly, the Spanish authorities covered up to protect football and tennis players, not to mention they locked the evidence and wouldn't let any external doping authorities test the DNA in the blood bags.
How this will play out in Australia will be really interesting.
The whole big question is really: is there systemised doping organised by teams, or is individuals or small groups of people only?
If it is the former (as was, or maybe still is, the case in cycling), then it is a big scandal indeed. One common thread among doping cases though is the lengths that the involved parties will go to to main the omerta.
I hope that we do not have team sponsored doping here. But, I wouldn't be surprised if we did, either.
Sidbarret
Fred Wood (13)
If the Armstrong case has proven anything it is that one cannot solely rely on testing to find the cheats.
The blood passport in cycling is great idea as it measures the effect of cheating rather than the cause. A similar method should apply to all elite sports.
The other thing that can be done is to get better control over controlled substances from the producers side.
But the best way to find the cheats would be to turn competitors against each other. Cycling got to point where cheating was so common place that players couldn't come out against their fellow pros because chances were that they were guilty themselves. It is far more difficult to get away with cheating if you have to keep it all secret from everyone.
In most sports the local governing body is charged with enforcing the rules on their own player/competitors. These governing bodies are counter-incentivised to find the cheats. SARU (or any other body) doesn't want its players to cheat, but they also don't want the fallout from positive test (or any other strong evidence). The rational response in such a case is to look for cheats, but not so vigorously as to actually find anything. I don't know how to solve this, but any testing regime should be set up where the watchdog has the right incentives. Having some sort of system where SANZAR members audit each other have obvious draw backs, but it will at least ensure that watchdog is actually trying to bust the cheats.
Sidbarret
Fred Wood (13)
The situation might be different in Australia, but I would be surprised to find a team sponsored doping program in South Africa.
WP has about 200 players in their system at any one time and they all come from a very narrow social group, meaning that if you live in the right part of town it is impossible not to have a mate whose sister is dating that players, or a cousin in the u19 team, etc. And these people are just like the rest of us in that they drink and chat with their mates. It would be near impossible to keep systemised doping program secret for very long.
That is not to say that doping is necessary verboden or that WP wouldn't turn a blind eye if it suited them.
T
TOCC
Guest
The IOC in all its glory is guilty of turning a bond eye at times as well, prior to the 2000 Olympics there were a number of new tests and techniques developed, the IOC at the time opted against introducing during these techniques and instead released its intent to introduce the test at a later date...
So ultimately any athlete who was taking a few specific drugs prior to the Sydney Olympics were able to compete under these drugs and subsequently allowed time to cleanse their body before the new testing was introduced.... The IOC was afraid of tarnishing the Olympics image if it had of returned a number of positive tests...
It's no surprise that the likes of Marian Jones have been found guilty years later...
So ultimately any athlete who was taking a few specific drugs prior to the Sydney Olympics were able to compete under these drugs and subsequently allowed time to cleanse their body before the new testing was introduced.... The IOC was afraid of tarnishing the Olympics image if it had of returned a number of positive tests...
It's no surprise that the likes of Marian Jones have been found guilty years later...
Rob42
John Solomon (38)
Yes, it was in the sidebar of the hard copy paper. As mentioned, they are all lower-grade players...
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
I think rugby's inclusion in the Olympics might shed some light on the use of PEDs at an elite level. There may not be anyone caught at 2012 but some may be caught retrospectively since samples are kept and can be retested as the new tests are developed for PEDs that may have been undetectable by the testing performed at the time. I don't think the testing performed during the Olympics will find many as the tests are always a number of years behind those developing the PEDs.
I think the biggest impact would be if a number of players from tier 1 nations were caught as this would then raise questions about the 15 man game at an elite level. I'm sure there are some elite players using PEDs but we never really think about it that much. Currently I don't think it's a big concern but that may change if high profile players started to get caught. I think the difference is that if guys did get caught there would be more of a will from the IRB and the national unions to clean the sport up.
It's very hard to make a sport drug free as there's always someone willing to take the risk especially with the rewards on offer as more and more money comes into rugby. However unlike the UCI I think the IRB would come down hard on any form of organised use of PEDs. The problem though, as seen in the example, is that it's very hard to catch everyone even when they discover that guys were buying PEDs for use by their team. The only ones punished were the guys who were importing the stuff.
I think the biggest impact would be if a number of players from tier 1 nations were caught as this would then raise questions about the 15 man game at an elite level. I'm sure there are some elite players using PEDs but we never really think about it that much. Currently I don't think it's a big concern but that may change if high profile players started to get caught. I think the difference is that if guys did get caught there would be more of a will from the IRB and the national unions to clean the sport up.
It's very hard to make a sport drug free as there's always someone willing to take the risk especially with the rewards on offer as more and more money comes into rugby. However unlike the UCI I think the IRB would come down hard on any form of organised use of PEDs. The problem though, as seen in the example, is that it's very hard to catch everyone even when they discover that guys were buying PEDs for use by their team. The only ones punished were the guys who were importing the stuff.
RugbyFuture
Lord Logo
I suspect the anonymous 1st hand report is a rugby one. But it sounds like the thing eeryone knew about needling for injuries rather than hardcore drugs, pretty soft core article for the title.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/they-gave-you-an-edge-before-a-game-20130207-2e1jm.html
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/they-gave-you-an-edge-before-a-game-20130207-2e1jm.html
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
Why would you think it's a rugby player?
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
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