Drugs in sport

[Jaghond]

Possibly but That's why he qualified it by saying

I think it was cleverly worded.

Likewise, I thought Pulver came across as pretty genuine in his comments - especially for someone who has been in the hotseat for just on a week !
Interestingly, and IIRC, he was the only one who came out and actually confirmed that Rugby had caught & sanctioned some players ( albeit at a lower level than SS & S15).
I thought he generated a bit of "street cred" - it will now be critical to carry it through the whole rugby community - with no one being spared becasue of their potentially "perceived importance".

 

[RugbyFuture]

Why would you think it's a rugby player?

It refers to an international game in a genuine sense, and the injuries and game explained as well as caffeine use would relate to rugby, not to mention the SMH's relationship with a whole bunch of ex rugby players as journos ( i would suspect it is [NO NAMES UNLESS PROVEN GUILTY - Mods] )considering the long term injury problem talk)

 

[Scott Allen]

Fox reported the incident referred to in Case Study 1 last year and named one of the parties banned.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...one/story-e6frf4pu-1226375861924#.URQdxR2sjTo

Case Study 1

On 14 October 2010, Customs and Border Protection intercepted a package from Canada which contained ten, five milligram vials of white powder labelled GHRP-6. Subsequent inquiries by ASADA identified the addressee as a rugby union player in a state club rugby competition.

On 28 November 2010, Customs and Border Protection intercepted a package from Canada addressed to another individual from the same team. This package contained five vials of what was believed to be GHRP-6. Although it was not able to be established in the investigation, ASADA assessed it ‘as possible’ that the two individuals who had imported these substances were complicit in the importation of GHRP-6 from Canada, and that other team members of these individuals were using GHRP-6.

After an extensive investigation by ASADA, the matter was referred to the Australian Rugby Union as a potential anti-doping rule violation. The ARU subsequently imposed a four-year ban on one individual for the possession and attempted trafficking of GHRP-6, and the other individual received a two-year ban for possession of GHRP-6.

 

[daz]

If the Armstrong case has proven anything it is that one cannot solely rely on testing to find the cheats.

Yes, but some known drugs are actually really, really easy to detect, if you bother to look hard enough.

I am somewhat amused by the codes response, especially AFL. Oh my goodness, they say, drugs in our code? We're shocked. Shocked we tells ya. We WILL track you down eventually, so hand yourselves in now to save us the effort.

This from the biggest code in the country who could not even detect Ben Cousins was on Methamphetamine for the entirety of his playing career, until he 'fessed up.

 

[No4918]

Yes, but some known drugs are actually really, really easy to detect, if you bother to look hard enough.

I am somewhat amused by the codes response, especially AFL. Oh my goodness, they say, drugs in our code? We're shocked. Shocked we tells ya. We WILL track you down eventually, so hand yourselves in now to save us the effort.

This from the biggest code in the country who could not even detect Ben Cousins was on Methamphetamine for the entirety of his playing career, until he 'fessed up.

The AFL recently had the chance to introduce tougher sanctions on recreational drugs and refused to. One week on that is looking like a terrible decision. Wonder if it will be reassessed. IMHO, if players are getting away with recreational use regularly they will be less likely to be concerned about getting caught using PEDs.

 

[daz]

The AFL have really hamstrung the clubs with their 3 strikes policy. The club is not even told when a player records a strike until they hit the magic 3rd strike. Then the player gets turfed and the club is asked to explain what they are doing to tackle the problem. That is insanity.

Still, the clubs can't get off scot free and claim ignorance; they know what is going on. Players hanging with gangsta types is hardly new news.

 

[Henry]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/confident-mitchell-remains-vigilant-20130207-2e1rb.html

Mitchell echoing Pulver's comments.

 

[Torn Hammy]

How sanctimonious do our bleatings about other countries' PED practices look now.

This report has tainted every Australian sportsperson and put the spotlight on how genuine we are in addressing drugs in sport. If they do it in a half hearted manner then the taint will remain forever across all sports. This can't be allowed to happen.

If they do get serious then we may be without whole clubs in the AFL and NRL for this season. Jeez..

 

[Thinker]

As a long time loiterer, I didn't want my first post to be in this thread but it is undoubtedly a timely discussion.

The cases alluded to in the report and online can all be found in public media releases on the ASADA website as they aren't part of the 'unnamed' report.

We need to remember that in the 2000s rugby topped all sports in the UK with positive drug test results and even the Springboks have had positives in the last 2 years. As Victor Conte likes to say, failing a drug test is a mental failure. They are that simple to pass and yet rugby sees positives.

To assume rugby is completely clean is a stretch, however practises in Australia are generally better than elsewhere and our TGA blocks alot of stuff that is OTC elsewhere.

Everyone is also assuming the rest of the world operates on our level. The US Olympic committee have a history of covering up positives, most famously Lewis, and testing procedures in many countries where compliance issues could involve the government are questionable. At least the Australian govt and ASADA as independent and seemingly proactive on the matter.

I think the biggest concern for rugby (globally) is that of 7s. It is potenitally the "perfect storm" for doping demand. High power:weight ratio like sprinters is required, strength for collision, massive aerobic systems not only for on-field performance but also match to match, day to day and tournament to tournament recovery is required. Most of the matches involve play well above the anaerobic threshold. Not to mention that teams fly half way around the world, spend a week there, play 6 games in 2 days, fly back to the other side of the world and repeat the process.

As an example in the last two week space the USA team had 2x 15+ hour flights, plus 12 games of 7s. European teams had longer flights. At 84 hours recovery from an NPC game of rugby recovery is incomplete (without any flights), and having the fastest/fittest players is irrelevant when they are only at 80%. Given we know that the standard of the game, not the individual athelet determines the operational requirements of speed, , the demands on the bodys of 7s players is extreme.

 

[barbarian]

Great first post Thinker. Welcome aboard.

Agree about 7s. It's also worth noting that the vials of urine found in the plumbing at Gold Coast Stadium may well have been from the 7s, as it was the last major sporting event to take place there IIRC.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As Victor Conte likes to say, failing a drug test is a mental failure. They are that simple to pass and yet rugby sees positives.

Could you explain this for me? Is the essence that if you apply your mind to it you can get around a drug test?
Naively, perhaps, I have ignored drugs in sport as an issue because I "thought" it did not affect my sport - so I've heard John Fahey saying we will catch you but paid little attention.

 

[Thinker]

Could you explain this for me? Is the essence that if you apply your mind to it you can get around a drug test?
Naively, perhaps, I have ignored drugs in sport as an issue because I "thought" it did not affect my sport - so I've heard John Fahey saying we will catch you but paid little attention.

He basically means that the knowledge of how the drugs work (half lives, detectability etc) as well as the testing procedures and protocols means that you should not get caught. If you fail a drug test it's more to do with making a mistake with timing and such than the actual drug taking. Many of the biggest drug cheats never tested positive, even these club rugby players in Oz got done because of parcel deliveries.

The documents he was made to write for US anti-doping officials is basically a doping blueprint (many of which were published by newspapers online). One could only imagine what Armstrongs team of doctors could produce.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He basically means that the knowledge of how the drugs work (half lives, detectability etc) as well as the testing procedures and protocols means that you should not get caught. If you fail a drug test it's more to do with making a mistake with timing and such than the actual drug taking. Many of the biggest drug cheats never tested positive, even these club rugby players in Oz got done because of parcel deliveries.

The documents he was made to write for US anti-doping officials is basically a doping blueprint (many of which were published by newspapers online). One could only imagine what Armstrongs team of doctors could produce.

Is it stoppable?

 

[Thinker]

Is it stoppable?

Drugs in sport or beating the testing procedures?

 

[Ash]

He basically means that the knowledge of how the drugs work (half lives, detectability etc) as well as the testing procedures and protocols means that you should not get caught. If you fail a drug test it's more to do with making a mistake with timing and such than the actual drug taking. Many of the biggest drug cheats never tested positive, even these club rugby players in Oz got done because of parcel deliveries.

The documents he was made to write for US anti-doping officials is basically a doping blueprint (many of which were published by newspapers online). One could only imagine what Armstrongs team of doctors could produce.

One good example is micro-dosing of EPO in cycling.

You continually take small amounts of EPO, then right before bed you must drink something like 1.5L of water and the next day you will not fail a drug test. You only fail if you are silly enough to not drink the water, and unlucky to have a test the next day.

Which is what happened to Thomas Frei, a second tier cyclist at BMC. He is one of the very few drug users who get caught and immediately confess to (mostly) everything, including drug taking cycles and how easy tests are to avoid. See:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3...o-doses-and-water-to-avoid-EPO-detection.aspx

(There were better article with details on Frei describing how easy the drug tests are to pass.)

In most sports with widespread and well known drug use a complete confession will involve maybe other athletes, sources, team or other doctors with further links to other athlete, and so on. So if you get caught, deny deny deny. At least after 6 months to 2 years you will have a sporting career to return to. If you confess and other people are caught, you risk getting ostracised and your career is over. Look at Armstrong's (very public) intimidation of Simeoni for an example, when Simeoni publicly outed Ferrari as a doping doctor.

 

[Ash]

Sorry, forgot to mention in the Frei case that he refused to mention who his suppliers were, and exactly who knew in his inner circle around him, although he admitted that most knew. No doubt a few other cyclists would have been implicated.

 

[Lindommer]

..... (re) 7s. It's also worth noting that the vials of urine found in the plumbing at Gold Coast Stadium may well have been from the 7s, as it was the last major sporting event to take place there IIRC.

The Titans GM reckons the urine vials were at least six months old, "not us" he cries.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Drugs in sport or beating the testing procedures?

Drugs in sport.
The druggers seem to be at least one step ahead of authorities so that the only viable sanction seems to retrospective stripping of titles.
That gets a bit hard in team sports and for the true sociopath (L Armstrong) such a threat is probably no deterrent.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Titans GM reckons the urine vials were at least six months old, "not us" he cries.

Was that based on colour?
May have just been some left over chateau d'yquem or de bortoli's Noble One

 

[Richo]

The Titans GM reckons the urine vials were at least six months old, "not us" he cries.

He's got a real nose then, Lindo. Better watch out he doesn't get into the wine business.