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Drugs in sport

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It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
I'm just genetically blessed, eat right, train hard and sleep well........trust me.
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T

TOCC

Guest
The expiry date on the jam glass holding the urine was 5years old
 
W

WB3

Guest
He basically means that the knowledge of how the drugs work (half lives, detectability etc) as well as the testing procedures and protocols means that you should not get caught. If you fail a drug test it's more to do with making a mistake with timing and such than the actual drug taking. Many of the biggest drug cheats never tested positive, even these club rugby players in Oz got done because of parcel deliveries.

I haven't posted in well over a year, but like Thinker, I couldn't resist on this occasion. (Ps - are you the Thinker of EliteFTS by any chance?)

The above really is the case. For those of you who have some interest in PEDs and testing and why the procedures tend to be so fallible, the youtube channel IceCreamFitness has some very good discussions under "Gear Talk", and other such topics. His perspective may come off as jaded and cynical, but it seems increasingly justified. Certain compounds that he discusses as widely used in professional sport, and some workarounds to testing he lists, seem particularly applicable to the Australian football codes.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
There's also online forums like cutting edge muscle where young aspiring athletes can anonymously go to get doping help.

Remember the first time someone posted a link there and it was a young collegiate middle distance runner in the US looking for advantages to maintain his scholarship. Was a real eye opener and so depressing at the same time.
 

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
Hi team, been out of action for some months for a number of reasons.
I'm surprised to see all the emphasis is on drugs in sport and not the more encompassing match-fixing, sports betting, and the involvement of organised crime!
"Growth promotants" also speed up the developement of cancers etc, so the ultimate penalty that is paid by users may in fact be premature death!
The "urine" found at Skilled park is said to be up to 5 years old and black in colour, and, as it is of no interest to any of the investigators, it will be binned.

Re sports betting, to be able to bet on a horse to "lose" a race is unbelievable, and in matches, "spot betting" is open to corruption.

As recently as yesterday I was told of match-manipulation (involving two matches) by a friend (Les), who played first grade for Drummoyne! One involved Les being told by the ref at half time that he would be sent off during the second half. The other match involved payments to the opposing coach and #9 and #10, (their two best players), for those players to "play dead"!!
Whilst some of you would be alarmed at this revelation, I should add that Les was at the time working in western NSW, and playing union in the Nyngan-Trangie district and that he recently celebrated his 90th birthday!!!
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Takes the fun out of sport hearing about this stuff.

Recreational drugs in club rugby are common. I don't do it and I don't condone it. At the end of the day These players are only hurting themselves and the only time I have ever intervened is when it is done in the public arena as it is a bad look for the code, the club and a bad influence on youth involved in Rugby.

I have concerns on how young players are handled. Kids barley adults have large amounts of pressure to succeed on them when they are also deficient in life experience. This combination makes them vulnerable. I think rugby does good work on handling young players but we must never take our eye off the ball.

Junior players must be most commonly excepted as children before hitting there teen years. Rugby can have a major influence on youth by developing a strong bond between club and community. As youth develop through their teen years, pubety and those major changes and temptations that happen in a kids life during those years the bond of rugby and loyalty to their club can be a tool to keep them focused during these tough times. One must ask how many promising athletes are lost during these years?

This doesn't greatly relate to performance enhancing drugs at the elite level but drugs in sport come in many forms.
 
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Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Following this in the media with interest. A question;

When players start coming out saying "I didnt know"
How should it be handled?

1. A club may have 80% of their current team suspended (other 20% moved on).
2. Shane Warne tried the i didnt know, mummy gave it to me - he got time.
3. Who is responsible, the board, the coarching staff, the trainers, or the player?
4. An Olympic Gold medalist says i didnt know, my doctor gave it to me, what happens?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
As Drew Mitchell said, ignorance is no excuse.

Whilst it might give a player someone to blame, the athlete is the one taking the drug and they are the one that is responsible.

Clearly other people involved can also be banned from that sport (or all sports) but it isn't really a mitigating factor for the athlete in question.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
As Drew Mitchell said, ignorance is no excuse.

Whilst it might give a player someone to blame, the athlete is the one taking the drug and they are the one that is responsible.

Clearly other people involved can also be banned from that sport (or all sports) but it isn't really a mitigating factor for the athlete in question.

Braveheart - true, raised the question is that how they will sweep it under the table??????
That would set a precedence that any olympian could say, didnt know the Australia Doctor gave it to me.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Why would it or should it be swept under the table?

If teams and players have taken banned PERs and it can be proven, I don't think there will be much of an effort to protect them and claim it was all a big mistake.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Why would it or should it be swept under the table?

If teams and players have taken banned PERs and it can be proven, I don't think there will be much of an effort to protect them and claim it was all a big mistake.
It shouldnt be swept under the mat, I'm concerned that they would attempt to make it happen.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I think this has gone far too far for that.

If there are guilty parties they will pay the price. Heads will roll from this.

I think the potential stumbling block will be that plenty of the issues will relate to supplements that aren't on the banned list yet.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
One of the issues seems to be all the palaver surrounding the announcement and then no substance or specifics made available for us mugs to better understand the actual problem.

By all accounts the list of suspected individuals and clubs has been passed to the appropriate authorities for further investigation and action in accordance with the principles of natural justice etc.

Somehow it all seems that the Pollies and ACC have jumped the gun somewhat by making sweeping statements, when the detailed information supporting the assertions and announcements are not available for release to the public. It smacks somewhat of grandstanding.

In doing so, all of Australian professional sport has been tarnished, rather than just the guilty cheating bastards.

I'm all for outing the drug cheats, and for sending a very strong message to the those who may be tempted to cheat, that this will not be tolerated, but currently EVERY athlete and club is under suspicion including many innocents.

Has the grandstanding been worth it?

Why not jump on the Grandstand when there is an arrest, or publicly releasable prima facie evidence to support the claims. IMHO that would be a better time to send a very strong message to those who may be tempted to cheat at some future point.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I guess this is one of the major problems with something like the ACC which is given wide reaching powers and tasked with conducting such a massive investigation into an issue but doesn't actually have the power to lay any charges.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Hugh Jarse just heard someone from AFL, may have been Dimitriou, saying that they know the clubs but not the players and he is unable to say, therefore, whether the players are current or not.
In the same story it was reported that the clubs concerned have been or will be told soon - maybe today.
 

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I think part of the issue is that they are trying to get athletes to own up. "We know you're cheating and we're going to catch you soon" statements are aimed at athletes that they haven't caught yet who's guilty conscience get the better of them and they turn themselves in. I don't think it's going to happen unless they provide an incentive. You will be banned for 2 years but the criminal charges will be down graded, or something of that ilk might be worth a try.
I don't want to hear about any athlete blaming someone else for a failed drug test. There is so much education around this that they have no excuse. They are all provided with a number to call if they have any issues about anything they take. Sally Pearson has taken a good stand on this
http://www.perthnow.com.au/entertai...or-sally-pearson/story-e6frg30l-1226574616564
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think part of the issue is that they are trying to get athletes to own up. "We know you're cheating and we're going to catch you soon" statements are aimed at athletes that they haven't caught yet who's guilty conscience get the better of them and they turn themselves in. I don't think it's going to happen unless they provide an incentive. You will be banned for 2 years but the criminal charges will be down graded, or something of that ilk might be worth a try.
I don't want to hear about any athlete blaming someone else for a failed drug test. There is so much education around this that they have no excuse. They are all provided with a number to call if they have any issues about anything they take. Sally Pearson has taken a good stand on this
http://www.perthnow.com.au/entertai...or-sally-pearson/story-e6frg30l-1226574616564

If a player is relying on a doctor to give him only legal stuff, and the doctor is giving him scripts (as opposed to vials) then i think the player is morally in the clear.
If there's no paper trail then you have to think that the player has been wilfully blind to the risk that what's being done is not entirely kosher.
But, let's face it, these are not necessarily the brightest blokes in the world.
 

Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
If a player is relying on a doctor to give him only legal stuff, and the doctor is giving him scripts (as opposed to vials) then i think the player is morally in the clear.
If there's no paper trail then you have to think that the player has been wilfully blind to the risk that what's being done is not entirely kosher.
But, let's face it, these are not necessarily the brightest blokes in the world.

IS, if they have taken banned substances ASADA will try and take them out for two years. There are no excuses really as doctors and chemists have interactive databases and athletes can phone ASADA and log an official decision on any particular substance. Elite athletes in league, athletics and cricket are taught this at 16 and have refresher courses yearly. These kids are meticulous in their compliance, as they know that the buck stops with them, so don't for a second feel any empathy for these professional footballers. Ignorance is not an excuse here.

If the doctors and scientists get the wrap for this stuff, Australia's drug protocols will become an international joke and all our athletes clean or otherwise will be tainted.
 
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