Drugs in sport

[Inside Shoulder]

IS, if they have taken banned substances ASADA will try and take them out for two years. There are no excuses really as doctors and chemists have interactive databases and athletes can phone ASADA and log an official decision on any particular substance. Elite athletes in league, athletics and cricket are taught this at 16 and have refresher courses yearly. These kids are meticulous in their compliance, as they know that the buck stops with them, so don't for a second feel any empathy for these professional footballers. Ignorance is not an excuse here.

If the doctors and scientists get the wrap for this stuff, Australia's drug protocols will become an international joke and all our athletes clean or otherwise will be tainted.

Sure.
That's why I used the term morally: there are going to be some kids taking the fall for organized dishonesty.
See story re Rabbitohs reserve grader being run in smh.com.au tonight.


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[Rob42]

The government and crime commission have taken a gamble here in announcing this report without there being any charges pending. Apparently they'll tell the NRL/AFL which clubs are being investigated, but it's up to the clubs to declare that fact publicly. And in all likelihood, that could be it for a while. Not a good look for anybody if the "blackest day in Australian sport" is followed by months of inaction.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The government and crime commission have taken a gamble here in announcing this report without there being any charges pending. Apparently they'll tell the NRL/AFL which clubs are being investigated, but it's up to the clubs to declare that fact publicly. And in all likelihood, that could be it for a while. Not a good look for anybody if the "blackest day in Australian sport" is followed by months of inaction.

Gerard Henderson (love or hate him) makes some good points here:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...ge-and-jury-in-sport-case-20130211-2e8tw.html

Watching Danks on 7:30 Report I was confused by the questions and bemused by the answers.
Some of what he sells (sold?) on his Medical Rejuvination Clinic site was said by the reporter not to be approved for human use. If so how can he sell it so publicly?
https://mrcpeptides.com.au/terms.php

They seem to have removed the products from sale but the one featured on 7:30 was
http://www.researchclinic.com.au/peptides/aod-9604-lipotropin/#category267 , I think.

Danks online shop is not the only place this can be purchased so I am left wondering how, if its not approved for humans there can be online stores selling it in oz.

Danks volunteered that the ACC had told him he had done nothing wrong: if not true a brazen and readily disproven claim.




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[Rob42]

I haven't seen all the Danks interview, but he reckons the only stuff he injected into Essendon players was IV vitamin B and C. If that's true, what an embarrassment. Nothing illegal about that of course, but also absolutely no chance that he's helping them with potions like that. Vitamin C has long been the wonder-drug of choice for alternative-type practitioners, but honestly, you're wasting your time. Glad to know that they wouldn't have been getting scurvy, though. If that's the standard of his "sports science", I wouldn't go too near any of his other "supplements".

 

[Dave Beat]

I'm not sure of the correct process to charge and suspend / expel a sportsman.
I had thought there was an "A" sample and a "B" sample - both had to test positive to be charged, and then an appropriate penalty is given.
Do phone taps provide another method, or does it have to be "proven" by either blood or urine?

 

[Rob42]

I'm not sure of the correct process to charge and suspend / expel a sportsman.
I had thought there was an "A" sample and a "B" sample - both had to test positive to be charged, and then an appropriate penalty is given.
Do phone taps provide another method, or does it have to be "proven" by either blood or urine?

No, it doesn't have to be proven by blood or urine - Marion Jones, the US athlete, never failed a test but was convicted on the basis of the testimony of others, if I remember correctly. Ditto Lance Armstrong, of course. The lower-grade rugby players that have been suspended in relation to "peptides" were busted by Customs trying to import them - no drug testing involved.

 

[Torn Hammy]

The horse trading begins.

I've heard that ASADA and the ACC will have a shitload of evidence- these guys aren't idiots and they have unlimited resources to investigate and prosecute their cases.

The government has offered to do deals to those who fess up and I suspect this is what will happen when the cheats sit back and observe the complete trashing of the Essendon brand.

As a coach, I just want to express how happy I am about this initiative. All credit to Gillard, ASADA and the ACC for taking on something that could easily blow up in their faces.

 

[Braveheart81]

No, it doesn't have to be proven by blood or urine - Marion Jones, the US athlete, never failed a test but was convicted on the basis of the testimony of others, if I remember correctly. Ditto Lance Armstrong, of course. The lower-grade rugby players that have been suspended in relation to "peptides" were busted by Customs trying to import them - no drug testing involved.

Marion Jones eventually admitted that she took PEDs which is what caused her to be stripped of her medals.

She went to prison because she lied to the grand jury prior to that (during the BALCO/Victor Conte investigation).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No, it doesn't have to be proven by blood or urine - Marion Jones, the US athlete, never failed a test but was convicted on the basis of the testimony of others, if I remember correctly. Ditto Lance Armstrong, of course. The lower-grade rugby players that have been suspended in relation to "peptides" were busted by Customs trying to import them - no drug testing involved.

These are 2 different issues: what does it take for a sport to impose a sanction versus what happens when you commit perjury.
The second does not depend on whether or not Jones ever returned a positive sample.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The horse trading begins.

I've heard that ASADA and the ACC will have a shitload of evidence- these guys aren't idiots and they have unlimited resources to investigate and prosecute their cases.

The government has offered to do deals to those who fess up and I suspect this is what will happen when the cheats sit back and observe the complete trashing of the Essendon brand.

As a coach, I just want to express how happy I am about this initiative. All credit to Gillard, ASADA and the ACC for taking on something that could easily blow up in their faces.

if they had enough to charge people they would have been charged - they're trying to get people to roll over because they haven't got quite enough.

If that's right then I cant agree with the pats on the back - some serious trashing of reputations is going on and will go on and if there isn't enough to charge people then that's not the right way to behave.

 

[Braveheart81]

if they had enough to charge people they would have been charged - they're trying to get people to roll over because they haven't got quite enough.

If that's right then I cant agree with the pats on the back - some serious trashing of reputations is going on and will go on and if there isn't enough to charge people then that's not the right way to behave.

The ACC has no power to lay either criminal charges or drugs in sport charges.

I don't disagree that they will be hoping that people roll over and tell all however I don't doubt that there will be some charges flowing from the ACC investigation. i=It will just take time.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The ACC has no power to lay either criminal charges or drugs in sport charges.

I don't disagree that they will be hoping that people roll over and tell all however I don't doubt that there will be some charges flowing from the ACC investigation. i=It will just take time.

True - but the fact they announced it and did not refer it to the AFP or state police suggests that "they got nothing": even less than if they had given it to the AFP who then decided there wasn't enough.
I reckon.
Not suggesting I have any real idea.

 

[I like to watch]

I think you are right IS, but didn't she look good talking tough to all the cheats.
Typical Gillard Government stuff,sounds great, but as you peel away the layers, there is no substance.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Its serious all right:

The NRL has informed the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles that the club was the subject of intelligence gathering by the Australian Crime Commission.​

http://www.seaeagles.com.au/news-di...nue-to-cooperate-with-ACC-investigation/68233

My theory now is: the ACC reckon that Dank(s?) is up to no good so they put the Eagles & Essendon under surveillance.
Assuming the Eagles are telling the truth and this all they were told it looks like the surveillance produced nothing.
How to trash 2 sports and 100's of players in one press conference.

 

[qwerty51]

The whole drugs fiasco is going to smother the start of the Super rugby season in terms of media coverage

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Several days on and still very little substance.

As some one has posted above, if there was genuine evidence, then the guilty drug cheats would already be in the justice system (Sports or criminal justice).

I originally defended Lance Armstrong in the Lance is a Cheat thread. I was wrong - clearly. And I want my money back from buying the book "It's not about the Bike". Clearly the title was correct - in hindsight.

The "darkest day in Australian Sport". Gotta come up with a bit more than a couple of reserve grade rugby players already punished for their stupidity before I will believe this is the darkest day.

On the evidence presented so far, I don't think so and what has come to light since the announcement.

Not much. Come one ACC, Minister for Sport, AFP, State Police, ASADA either put up or STFU. Huge damage may have been done to Australian Sport and countless clean professional athletes as a result of your grandstanding.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nathan Buckley of collingwood I think has got the Tom tits with lack of detail and the general slur on that game.
The AFL haven't even named the clubs.
Can we take any comfort from the silence concerning s 15 and wallabies?


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[Hugh Jarse]

Nothing new came out of the Channel nein "expose" that has just finished.

IIRC they said that AFL have one (out of 800 professional athletes) mentioned in the report outside Essendon club believed to be somehow associated with performance enhancing drugs. Apparently recreational drugs is a little more widespread than that - Ricky Nixon, West Coke Eagles, etc.

The "case" for the Blackest Day in NRL seems rather flimsy as well.

This smacks of a massive political stunt from Aunty Julia's Mob to distract the media attention away from the current Government's performance in other areas. How much did the Big Mining Companies end up paying into Government coffers via the MRR Tax?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nothing new came out of the Channel nein "expose" that has just finished.

IIRC they said that AFL have one (out of 800 professional athletes) mentioned in the report outside Essendon club believed to be somehow associated with performance enhancing drugs. Apparently recreational drugs is a little more widespread than that - Ricky Nixon, West Coke Eagles, etc.

The "case" for the Blackest Day in NRL seems rather flimsy as well.

This smacks of a massive political stunt from Aunty Julia's Mob to distract the media attention away from the current Government's performance in other areas. How much did the Big Mining Companies end up paying into Government coffers via the MRR Tax?

For sure.
Boiled down it seems that what should have been announced was:
"We spent a shitload trying to catch some drug cheats. We found a snake oil salesman taking money for old rope from gullible coaches looking for a secret edge. We think we may have missed something but would be grateful if the guilty would report to their local cop shop and save us further trouble"


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[JSRF10]

Good article from Matt Williams on the whole affair