Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[Biffo]

i don't want to get involved in a fight over the matter, as five to six years is, to me, enough of "it".
i completely agree with your first four paragraphs.
well expressed, Sir.

what happened in the last few weeks was, IMO, an inevitability set in train by the forces that removed Robbie Deans.
when the practice of removing the Wallaby coach by a campaign of white-anting, undermining, backgrounding journalists, breaches of confidence, lying and straight out assault was "legitimized" by many to get rid of Robbie Deans and install The Coach, it was clearly going to be on again whenever a few felt disaffected.

what's that about sowing and reaping?
"They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind"
Book of Hosea

btw, i don't think there was any meaningful "conspiracy" by any group either to get rid of The Coach or to install a favourite son.
simply, too many factors worked against The Coach and brought him down.

for those interested in coups, the removal of the very unfortunate Greg Smith from the coaching job at the Wallabies is a fascinating study.
perhaps some will, one day, reap the whirlwind of that action.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If you want to stop the rot you have to conduct yourself impeccably because stopping the rot is going to involve standing up to those who are the problem and if you demand different standards from the players than you can deliver you will soon lose their respect.

 

[Dave Beat]

Seeing as there is a "Like" button, why can't there be a "Dislike" one?

Because there is enough negative crap out there already, and I hate Uni as a team we want to beat, but also truly admire what they have done and achieved in raising the level of Rugby in NSW - and there is no button for that, so let's just keep like

 

[Train Without a Station]

2 years! And the dressing room is in no small part the theme of my post.

The dressing room, and for that matter petty political rivalries, is the Achilles heel of Australian rugby.

Ath, let's remember, Deans had to go. Not because he was a bad coach, but after 6 years we were no longer going anywhere under him.

In his 2nd year he won 42%. That includes the easier NH fixture which we are about to embark on. He wasn't ridden too hard about that. The Lions thrashing wasn't the last straw after annual unacceptable losses.

The only thing that he had criticised in the media was his selections, ability to motivate players and fairly discipline with the same players repeatedly causing a stir. One of them has been at it again.

 

[Athilnaur]

Can't say I remember it that way TWAS but its a pretty succinct summary of the views held by those who thought he needed to go. My view was that between the Nucifora stuff and the Reds contingent he was very heavily undermined in the late 12 to 13 period. Mostly I agreed with his selections, and McKenzie has been every bit as controversial in his selections. How much press did we see whinging Beale should be 12?

From my perspective it is all a twisted reversal of Deans vs Cooper, only now it is McKenzie vs Beale.

 

[Dave Beat]

Can't say I remember it that way TWAS but its a pretty succinct summary of the views held by those who thought he needed to go. My view was that between the Nucifora stuff and the Reds contingent he was very heavily undermined in the late 12 to 13 period. Mostly I agreed with his selections, and McKenzie has been every bit as controversial in his selections. How much press did we see whinging Beale should be 12?

From my perspective it is all a twisted reversal of Deans vs Cooper, only now it is McKenzie vs Beale.

I don't think so on the above bold, and i guess we will never no. Link has proven examples that he'll work on ways to understand and with individuals to get the best out of them ans he'll do it until he succeeds.

I didn't like Dean's playing style / game plan.
I have enjoyed watching Links teams since he took the Tah's to the GF.

Best example of this would be looking at a player who played under both coaches and the comments on this forum about that player.

• Phipps under Deans didn't get to many positive comments, even his personal life got brought up as to the only reasons he made the side.
• Phipps under Link completely different game plan and approach, oh and he's ranked 5 to my rights so I'm sure plenty of you agree that he's playing good rugby now.

 

[Train Without a Station]

How much press did we see whinging Beale should be 12?

From my perspective it is all a twisted reversal of Deans vs Cooper, only now it is McKenzie vs Beale.

On the first point, just as much as we saw pointing out why he could not be at 12.

On the second, this has never been McKenzie vs Beale.

Robbie clearly took a personal issue with Quade (by personally, I mean Quade personally, in a professional sense) and decided to hold him to a higher standard than all. Look at the comments that Deans made about Quade now. Each one of them could still apply to Beale, yet he was happy to pick him despite all the drama he brought.

You cannot compare O'Conner who had played about 10 games as a 10, to Beale who debuted as a 10, played Super Rugby finals and a number of tests as a 10. Beale at 10 was like playing Barnes in one of his 3 positions.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Nixed for linguistic differences.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pretty sure he said "Bill". Which makes sense when Bill Pilver was the next bloke in the press conference.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Pretty sure he said "Bill". Which makes sense when Bill Pilver was the next bloke in the press conference.

Goddammit... I listened to that like 6 times because I wasn't quite sure what I was hearing was correct. Sometimes your Antipodean accents get by us North Americans.

(I deleted the post to cover my own stupidity.)

 

[Train Without a Station]

Top points for conspiracy theorism though Mizzy.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Top points for conspiracy theorism though Mizzy.

Nah, no conspiracy. It's not like Beale or Bill's roles in this affair are hidden. We just don't know what McKenzie might put in that chapter of his book.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I really doubt there is much between McKenzie and Beale other than Beale did something wrong, and McKenzie wanted to discipline him for it.

 

[barbarian]

If this really was a conspiracy led by NSW players, I would expect to see a few renegade players backing Link in the media, though maybe doing it anonymously.

The deafening silence on that front brings me to conclude there wasn't much love for Link amongst the players. No player on twitter has even thanked him for his time in charge!
.

 

[Scrubber2050]

If this really was a conspiracy led by NSW players, I would expect to see a few renegade players backing Link in the media, though maybe doing it anonymously.

The deafening silence on that front brings me to conclude there wasn't much love for Link amongst the players. No player on twitter has even thanked him for his time in charge!
.

This just wasn't about the DI - KB (Kurtley Beale) saga - ran deeper.

Nasty divorce, alienated children blah blah then lack of communication with team. A combination of events and circumstances.

There may have been some locker room stuff but I don't believe it was a Tahs player conspiracy, even though Chuck was at the game on Saturday

 

[mxyzptlk]

If this really was a conspiracy led by NSW players, I would expect to see a few renegade players backing Link in the media, though maybe doing it anonymously.

The deafening silence on that front brings me to conclude there wasn't much love for Link amongst the players. No player on twitter has even thanked him for his time in charge!
.

Just to be clear, the conspiracy stuff TWAS is on about came from me thinking McKenzie said "Beale" in the press conference when he probably said "Bill." Personally, I'm not sure how that constitutes a conspiracy -- all this stuff did come to a head because of Beale's actions. Unless there are people thinking it was a coordinated fuck-up attack cunning plan on the part of the Waratahs players to oust McKenzie, which I never suggested or even considered.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

If this really was a conspiracy led by NSW players, I would expect to see a few renegade players backing Link in the media, though maybe doing it anonymously.

The deafening silence on that front brings me to conclude there wasn't much love for Link amongst the players. No player on twitter has even thanked him for his time in charge!
.

I wouldn’t say it is a co-ordinated waratahs plan, but there was definitely a faction ARU employees working to get rid of him. Cooper and Tomane both aid good things about Link & Di. However, negative press is the popular press.

I wouldn’t read too much into there being no twitter messages though. After having players breaking rank throughout the week to talk to the media, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pulver is covering himself with a gag order to the players.

I am not sure who is behind the whole thing but there is a definite conspiracy theory to take the heat off beale. It’s politics 101, discredit the opposition’s character to make yourself seem more righteous.

 

[Ulrich]

If you want to stop the rot you have to conduct yourself impeccably because stopping the rot is going to involve standing up to those who are the problem and if you demand different standards from the players than you can deliver you will soon lose their respect.

I don't agree.

The teachers that gave me the hardest time in school are the ones I respect and talk about the most.

In some cases I didn't listen and I regret it and in the event I did listen I have come to respect their authority because it really helped me.

 

[chasmac]

No, no, no, no no.

Well, yes. They do have a right to defend their mate if they want BUT by doing so they put the Wallaby jersey second. To me, what Beale did wasn't just disrespectful and insulting to Patston but also to the institute of the Wallaby jersey, culture, history and traditions. As a current Wallaby, to think that sending those texts/messages were OK or funny says something about what it means to Beale to be a Wallaby. For anyone to come out and publicly support him, they are doing no less to the Wallaby jersey than what he did and that's to walk all over it.

I'm fine with players privately supporting him and saying,

'Mate, what you did was pretty fucked up and not OK at all. Whatever happens to you from here on in, you need to cop on the chin and learn from it and hopefully you'll be back. Whatever you need from me to help you do that, mate - I'm here. But I'm not publicly going to defend you. That would be disrespecting this yellow/gold (can't remember what you guys like to call it ) jersey that I've looked up to and fought for and sacrificed so much for and love. It's also possibly putting my future in it in jeopardy and that is unacceptable as my family relies on me doing this job, being in this jersey, to make the best living I can for them. So mate, I love you and I'm here for you but you need to face this and accept responsibility for what you've done to this lady, to this team, to our game and to yourself.'

That's what I'd personally be pretty sweet with and what I'd expect from mates.

IMO, there is just no way Wallaby players - let alone the Cap and VC - can publicly support what he did and make statements hoping that he is kept around.

Best perspective I've read on these threads. EM epitomized the sentiment expressed in your post. The players, by publicly supporting Beale showed their lack of support for EM's principles and philosophy. This, IMHO is why EM resigned.

 

[barbarian]

Forget Beale, forget Patston. This is just about the players and Link.

If the players were split on Link we would have heard about it, gag order or not. All the players talk to journos, after all. If anyone was up in arms about what happened (like a lot of fans were) then surely they would have expressed this outrage to a journalist, no?

I could be totally wrong here, and a number of players could be quietly seething. But somehow I doubt they are.
.