Federal Election 2013

[BPC]

Can someone identify a single principle for which KRudd stands that will not give way to popularism?

Yes. The principle that KRudd should be PM.

Can it get any lower?

Almost certainly. I predict the bilges will be reached shortly after an election date is announced.

 

[Ruggo]

They say you can see the lights of Darwin from PNG on a clear night. Don't know if that is true or not. About 150ks from PNG to the tip of cape York.

Yep and just like Sarah Palin I can see Russia from my door step.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

The one thing this "boat people" debate is missing is free and open access for the media inside detention centres.

Our leaders pushing for the expansion of centres Manus Island and PNG justify their policy by pointing out how many asylum seekers have died trying to make the journey via boat in the last 12 months. So they are essentially doing this for the greater good of asylum seeker lives out of the goodness of their hearts. The end justifies the means....

The problem is of course, when you find out a large number of the people inside these camps want to kill themselves, it raises questions over whether or not the detention centres are achieving a better outcome for asylum seekers.

So my point is, that if this is the argument they want to use, they should let the media report on the conditions inside the detention centres so we can all decide for ourselves whether or not what they say stacks up.

The one thing worse than asylum seekers drowning at sea, is having their lives dictated by unaccountable politicians.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The one thing this "boat people" debate is missing is free and open access for the media inside detention centres.

Our leaders pushing for the expansion of centres Manus Island and PNG justify their policy by pointing out how many asylum seekers have died trying to make the journey via boat in the last 12 months. So they are essentially doing this for the greater good of asylum seeker lives out of the goodness of their hearts. The end justifies the means..

The problem is of course, when you find out a large number of the people inside these camps want to kill themselves, it raises questions over whether or not the detention centres are achieving a better outcome for asylum seekers.

So my point is, that if this is the argument they want to use, they should let the media report on the conditions inside the detention centres so we can all decide for ourselves whether or not what they say stacks up.

The one thing worse than asylum seekers drowning at sea, is having their lives dictated by unaccountable politicians.

You have more faith in the media than me


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[Sully]

The one thing worse than asylum seekers drowning at sea, is having their lives dictated by unaccountable politicians.

Or possible getting killed, maimed or raped or all three in there home countries. But unaccountable politicians would be right up there I'm sure.

 

[Gristlechewer]

and Gristlechewer endorsement.

Re post # 47, I am struggling to figure what or whom has the higher IQ?

 

[light]

Got to say, sitting indefinitely in a detention centre would drive most sane people crazy. Kinda feel sorry for them but at the same time what can you do?

I have a feeling this issue will still be one talked about in 50 years and for all the wrong reasons. At some point we will have an Australian Prime Minister apologising.

 

[ACT Crusader]

If you haven't already read/seen it, here is a link to the Julian Burnside QC (Quade Cooper) article that has been widely circulated on twitter. Have a listen to his interview also.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...people-here-are-the-facts-20130718-2q5rv.html

A couple of interesting points:

• "Border protection" is a grossly misleading term, used by both major parties. It implies that boat people are a threat to us. They are not. We do not need to be protected from asylum seekers: they need to be protected from their persecutors.

• Border control is a legitimate concern, but is irrelevant to the discussion. About 4 million people arrive in Australia each year by orthodox means: they come for business, holidays, study etc. If 25,000 a year arrive without authority, it is absurd to suggest that we have "lost control" of our borders. Our borders are close to watertight. Even if this year's rate of unauthorised arrivals continued (which is unlikely, given our history and geography), 25,000 unauthorised arrivals per year means that border control is effective in 99.3 per cent of cases. That is pretty good.

The fear card has been used in political debate for eons - Reds under the beds; billion dollar black holes; the workchoices boogie man; interest rates and the list goes on. This issue is no different

• So what should Australia do with people who arrive here by boat seeking asylum? At present we spend from $200,000 to $450,000 per person per year to detain them on an indefinite basis. The cost depends on whether they are held in a metropolitan detention centre (cheapest) or a remote or offshore place (most expensive).

This is the part that gets the least scrutiny - the cost. The parliamentary forum that should be getting stuck into this is during Senate Estimate hearings, but because both the major parties have spent truckloads on their relevant policies, so the focus turns elsewhere.

 

[Braveheart81]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-AK (Andrew Kellaway)-ash4/1002570_10151801477240844_1743993635_n.jpg

 

[Runner]

Whats to worry about? KR has issued a press release, hand a media stop and done the zip. Problem gone. Next area to fix please.

 

[boyo]

Apparently Australia is in crisis and in emergency because TA said so.

So it must be true, because he wouldn't say something for political gain, would he?

 

[Pusser]

Apparently Australia is in crisis and in emergency because TA said so.

So it must be true, because he wouldn't say something for political gain, would he?

Got it from an episode of The Hollow Men!


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[I like to watch]

Apparently Australia is in crisis and in emergency because TA said so.

So it must be true, because he wouldn't say something for political gain, would he?

Can't we put the pollies on a leaky boat and push it out to sea, with the understanding they are on the high seas until they agree on a compassionate and cost effective solution?
Reckon they would solve this before they got off the wharf!

 

[Runner]

Can't we put the pollies on a leaky boat and push it out to sea, with the understanding they are on the high seas until they agree on a compassionate and cost effective solution?
Reckon they would solve this before they got off the wharf!

They only agree that quickly on pay rises.

It would need to go to a committee and the Greens would like an enironmental impact statement on the ocean is the boat sank and the bullshit polluted the ocean.

 

[boyo]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...on-over-swipe-at-treasury-20130726-2qp8r.html

Hockeynomics?

 

[I like to watch]

It's good that the "boat people" read the SMH and fin review before they set off.
That is why Krud advertises in these papers isn't it?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...on-over-swipe-at-treasury-20130726-2qp8r.html

Hockeynomics?

Bowen is trying to beat this up - the quote is

''We are not going to rely on the information that is provided solely by the government because every time the government publishes a number it is dead set wrong.''
(my emphasis)

In fact the quote says nothing about PEFO.
And this

Assistant Treasurer Mathias Cormann also suggested Treasury and Finance had been influenced by the government.
[/QUOTE]

In the end it is irrelevant: when was the last time treasury, bullied or not, or the government got a prediction right - or even a trend?

 

[boyo]

''Last election we saw the opposition use an accounting firm which was then fined for a breach of professional standards because of the sloppy work which went into the opposition's costings. We are seeing yet again the same sloppy approach from the opposition.''
At the 2010 election, the Coalition had its costings done by an accounting firm instead of the Treasury and Finance Departments. In 2011, a tribunal found that two accountants who costed its 2010 election policies had breached professional standards.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

''Last election we saw the opposition use an accounting firm which was then fined for a breach of professional standards because of the sloppy work which went into the opposition's costings. We are seeing yet again the same sloppy approach from the opposition.''
At the 2010 election, the Coalition had its costings done by an accounting firm instead of the Treasury and Finance Departments. In 2011, a tribunal found that two accountants who costed its 2010 election policies had breached professional standards.

For failing to disclose the nature of the agreement under which they had been retained.
How does that justify the underperformance of the government and treasury in the matter of prediction and forecast?
More racing to the bottom?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It's good that the "boat people" read the SMH and fin review before they set off.
That is why Krud advertises in these papers isn't it?

The Rudd government has spent nearly $3 million in six days on its asylum boats advertising blitz before a single ad was placed in the media of origin countries of refugees.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/3m-on-blitz-so-far-and-counting-20130726-2qq16.html#ixzz2aCoPQdc3

I suppose its justified on the basis that the real targets of the policy have seen it first