James Horwill stripped of captaincy

[Hugh Jarse]

I hope it is a measure of Link's decisiveness and not his desperation.

Genia's play seems to suffer when given leadership.

Big Kev has been off his game of late. Ben Mowen has been a good leader but IMHO he is struggling to retain a starting jumper in the team, especially as a #8.

QC (Quade Cooper) as VC. I'm happy to see that he is now non toxic but think I would like to see more and sustained evidence of the turn around before I anoint him as the chosen one. Pleasing progress appears to have been made.

 

[Braveheart81]

Moving forward I think it is important that we have a few potential captains to turn to. You need to have that confidence that you can change captains if players are out of form.

I think this is a really important point.

Mowen is captain now but there is also no guarantee he'd be in the starting XV if Palu and Higginbotham were fit.

We are now in a position where Horwill, Mowen, Genia and Pocock are all potential Wallaby captains (who have had the job before). It puts you in a much better position that you're not forced to pick an out of form player just because they're captain which could easily happen come June next year if most potential Wallabies were healthy.

 

[BDA]

Finally, to QC (Quade Cooper). Whilst 2013 has been a difficult year for wallabies fans, its been an absolute pleasure to see QC (Quade Cooper) turn his career around

Well done sir!

 

[TSR]

.

Horwill was all bark and no bite. A poddle who thought he was a pitbull.

???? Not sure if this is a comment about him as a player or a captain.

As a player his best form is world class and a level above what any of the other locks have achieved. Unfortunately, it is a level above anything Horwill has achieved since his injury as well.

 

[jay-c]

horwill is a hot head, hes got a history of stomping which indicates he doesnt keep his cool- and this is not the behaviour expected of the wallabies captain
his decision making is clouded by his inability to control his emotions
ill also ad that hes been the captain of some of our worst campaigns in recent memory where the team has constantly looked rudderless and lacking in the ability to change tactics
recently his form doesnt warrant his place in the team let alone captain
i think hes an inspirational player on the field but for the reasons outlined above these kind of players are not captains
im happy to discuss my beliefs but if people cant make a rational arguement to suggest otherwise and cant keep provincialism out of it dont bother
*you wouldnt believe the level of crap i had to cop when i posted my views of horwill as captain about a year ago

 

[TSR]

I think this is a really important point.

Mowen is captain now but there is also no guarantee he'd be in the starting XV if Palu and Higginbotham were fit.

We are now in a position where Horwill, Mowen, Genia and Pocock are all potential Wallaby captains (who have had the job before). It puts you in a much better position that you're not forced to pick an out of form player just because they're captain which could easily happen come June next year if most potential Wallabies were healthy.

I understand where you are coming from, but I can't think of two many successful teams who didn't have stable leadership. Maybe there have been heaps of them, but I can't think of any.

Not that I have a problem with this decision in isolation, but it will be interesting what happens going forward. With everyone back, I'm not convinced Mowen is a definite starter so there may be a further change next year.

Personally I like Horwill as a leader when he is in form so I'm hoping he gets back there ASAP.

 

[TSR]

horwill is a hot head, hes got a history of stomping which indicates he doesnt keep his cool- and this is not the behaviour expected of the wallabies captain

I agree he has committed a couple of really poor cheap shots this year. Over the last couple of years, (up until then) I thought he had managed to reign in a lot of the brain explosions that he was capable of early in his career. Maybe the colour of my glasses are affecting my vision though.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Good to see the knives out on Horwill, bagging his captaincy and leadership ability and pumping up Mowen.

Let's put things in perspective, Horwill has been a great captain for the Reds since 2009, achieved a Super Rugby Championship and a Tri Nations as captain. On top of that at his best is one of the top locks in the world. Currently in very poor form by his standards though, after a few injuries.

Mowen is on the back end of a good year as captain, but realistically is probably only a squad or bench player with all players fit and in fact despite a good Lions series, has been fairly average in the Rugby Championship.

Let's not get carried away with the comparisons, when one bloke is struggling after a number of injuries and the other is at career peak. If you want to compare lets talk 2011 Horwill vs 2013 Mowen.

 

[Braveheart81]

@Train Without a Station - that's why I think it's a good selection decision. A player who is struggling was dropped (but then got his space back because Simmons got injured) even though he was captain.

Hopefully the same applies to Mowen next season if he doesn't deserve his place in the side based on form.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Oh, I did forget to mention BH. Right call for right now. I think Kev is ultimately our best option, but nothing says don't get complacent like dropping a captain who isn't the best in his position at the moment.

 

[biggsy]

Great news about Quade. Future captain, WC 2015?

He could get a daly taste this weekend if Mowen is replaced through this weekends game.

 

[ChargerWA]

Can bet Bill's not loving Mowen getting the captaincy. Just puts the heat on for him to get a top up.

 

[en_force_er]

I don't think Horwill has been good since 2011, maybe even beforehand. Obviously he's one of the best locks in the world at his best, but I'd argue his best form only lasted 2 or 3 years (so far).

Mowen is solid and a great choice of captain. But it's a Robshaw type issue because if we had Palu and Higgers and Pocock fit, Mowen would likely not even be in the 23.

 

[en_force_er]

Also, why the fuck did QC (Quade Cooper) get named vice other than courting controversy?

I don't think there's any rules is regards to naming a vice, it's literally controversy for the sake of controversy.

 

[Richo]

Also, why the fuck did QC (Quade Cooper) get named vice other than courting controversy?

I don't think there's any rules is regards to naming a vice, it's literally controversy for the sake of controversy.

Because the way he's turned around his approach has earned the respect of the squad? And Link wants to send the message that if you get your shit together and perform, good things will come?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Massive call, but the right one I think. Kev hasn't been at his best and Link is sending the clear message that nobody is untouchable in the squad. Mowen has proven himself to be a great captain and his elevation to the Wallaby leadership is well deserved. A bit surprised about QC (Quade Cooper) but well played Sir. He seems to have matured massively in the last year and there is a general sense that not only is he committed to the team, but the squad as a whole appears to be tighter. The actions Link has taken around team culture will prove beneficial in the long run I think.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I am a big fan of Ben Mowen as captain, and think he runs rings around Big Kev in this role even when at his best. But certainly there will be doubt about Ben's position in the team when Pocock and Higgers (and maybe Palu) are fit to play. At that time, I can see Higgers taking on the captaincy. Kev and Will don't seem to be able to control their emotions and tend to get the referees off side, and there have been questions raised about Poey's captaincy skills as well. Also, Mowen not Poey captains the Brumbies. Contenders as captain imo are Mowen, then Higgers and then Kev.

 

[ChargerWA]

Why Moore is overlooked constantly for captain at Wallaby and provincial level is always beyond me, but I assume the coaches have their reasons.

The only reason I can think is that as Hooker he has always been subbed around the 60min mark (at Wallaby level anyway) and most captains are 80 min players.

But agree with Brum Runner, Genia isn't a captain either. Too abrasive towards to the Ref. Doesn't have Gregan's guile to pull it off.

 

[en_force_er]

Because the way he's turned around his approach has earned the respect of the squad? And Link wants to send the message that if you get your shit together and perform, good things will come?

One shouldn't get rewarded for fucking up them pulling your shit together, one should be rewarded for being consistently excellent.

It feels like a media game. If QC (Quade Cooper) was Vice Captain on merit alone it could have gone unannounced, this screams deliberate headline maker.

I have no qualms with Quade, but 2013 Quade is no Wallaby VC and this is all a bit silly.

 

[BDA]

One shouldn't get rewarded for fucking up them pulling your shit together, one should be rewarded for being consistently excellent.

It feels like a media game. If QC (Quade Cooper) was Vice Captain on merit alone it could have gone unannounced, this screams deliberate headline maker.

I have no qualms with Quade, but 2013 Quade is no Wallaby VC and this is all a bit silly.

i cant agree with this. no.10s are regularly considered for the role of VC. Its logical to rely on the bloke that's leading you around the park. If he was given the Captaincy that would be a different story.