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Lance is a cheat? Yes or no

Discussion in 'Cycling' started by I like to watch, Jun 14, 2012.

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Lance is a cheat?

Yes 42 vote(s) 84.0%
No 8 vote(s) 16.0%
  1. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    Lance is back in the papers again. Either he is the innocent subject of a never ending vendetta, or a cynical long term dirty cheater.
    Or is he somewhere in between?
    Is it cheating when you know that at least 1/3 of the field are on the juice?
    Should the authorities wave the white flag, acknowledge they will always be one step behind the chemists, and legalise it all?
  2. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    Proving these things adequately and to a requisite standard can be difficult. Knowing something and proving something can be two different things.

    I don't know enough about Lance to form a view, but I'll be interested to see what others think, particularly given how rife cheating seems to be in this sport.
  3. Baldric Jim Clark (26)

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    Yes. Too much has been said for these to be untrue allegations. I think he and his team have been part of a highly sophisticated doping schedule.
  4. barbarian Michael Lynagh (62)

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    Poll added.
  5. Joe Mac Arch Winning (36)

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    The guy is the most tested athlete in the history of sport. Well over 500 tests in his career without a single positive sample. After a two year investigation, the FBI did not file a charge against him and dropped the case, because of no clear evidence of doping. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt and a vendetta is the right word to describe the case against him.

    It's also important to note that he is more than just an athlete but an inspiration to the millions and millions of people who suffer from cancer. He has dedicated his life to fighting against this disease. He has raised a huge amount of money for the cause and the attention he has brought to it in society is immeasurable.

    That's why I cant understand why people persist with the vendetta. Its not just Lance that gets hurt if they prove him wrong, its every person with cancer that has been inspired by his achievements.
    Paris Tah, Karl and light like this.
  6. Torn Hammy Johnnie Wallace (23)

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    The trouble with EPO testing is that you can get a false positive. Marion Jones (joke) had an A sample test positive to EPO and was branded as a drug cheat by all and sundry. When her B sample was negative she sued WADA for $100 million.

    Fearing further prosecution, WADA refined the criteria for testing positive which meant that if you could avoid testing for 8 hours you could take EPO without fear of a positive result. This was a very controversial decision as it made a farce of the test and the inventor of the test walked out in disgust.

    The problem for testers and sports administrators was that the tests still showed up all those cheats who had EPO in their system for longer than the 8 hour window. While there is a one in ten thousand chance of a false positive these guys seem get away with blatant cheating and it also makes doping necessary for all those who want to compete at the top level. Ironic. I think this is what they are inferring when they say about Armstrong "fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.” Note they don't say "positive" anywhere.

    In the end it will be hard to prove something in court when it throws up false positives.
  7. Schadenfreude John Solomon (38)

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    Did he? Probably

    Should we care? No

    My theory on these things is that it's easier to fill column inches by telling the same story over and over than it is to find a new story.

    The Baden-Clay murder is a good example, those people have been in the newspaper before, and therefore it's easier to write stories about them.
    Brian Westlake likes this.
  8. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    All the GC contenders were doping in the time period in question. He is the only one still denying it.

    If he was doping (which everyone thinks is extremely likely) it doesn't make a difference to cycling. He still rode amazingly to win those races, and everyone he beat was doing the same thing. He was the best climber of the decade for sure.

    What should authorities do? Well they have been cracking down on it for years. Didn't you see Contador get banned for having traces of a chemical which may have been used for blood doping in his system? Anything they catch these days gets a ban.

    The sport is probably "cleaner" now. Any of the GC guys trying to cheat would be using substances that have much less effect than those EPO days.
  9. AngrySeahorse Peter Sullivan (51)

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    I can't answer yes or no on this. I'm just hoping it is a no.
    rugbyskier and Nusadan like this.
  10. Schadenfreude John Solomon (38)

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    He should use the OJ defence: I didn't do it, but if I did do it, this is how I would have done it.
    Brian Westlake and Joe Mac like this.
  11. light Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    Definitely not. And even if he did it should not take anything away from what he has done in cycling. He has raised the social profile of the sport more than any other cyclist and raised more money for charity than most other athletes in any sport, period.

    If they pin this on him it will tarnish the sport of cycling and leave a mark which can never be removed. They should drop it and move on similar to that which was seen in Baseball, the records still stand and the testing continues..
    Cutter likes this.
  12. Joe Mac Arch Winning (36)

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    Agreed. What good would it acheive from stripping him of his titles? He rode in an age rife with doping. If he were to have his titles stripped and the person in second place were to be awarded the title, it is highly likely that person was also a doper. Do then go after the new title holder? unlikely. This is just another example of the Europeans livid at an American being the greatest in their beloved sport.
    Cutter likes this.
  13. light Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    It seems as soon as someone achieves something unthinkable the media jumps on the doping bandwagon. The guy is the best there is, the best there ever has been and quite possibly the best there ever will be. The fact his success is in a sport which is tainted by the presence of drugs should not be the catalyst to launch the lynch mob out after him. He has never tested positive to drugs and there is no test that can be done now to prove he did take drugs, other than of course a self-admission or polygraph. This is clearly a case of Europeans pissed off that they can't win the thing, even when Lance is not racing.

    In 5 years time when Usain Bolt no longer runs sub 10 seconds for the 100m dash we will probably be giving him a public trial for doping. The fact that he won, did not test positive and never has tested positive would suggest that he too is the best there is and best there ever has been, his records are a testament to all of the above, as are Lance's.
  14. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    He did actually, if you recall the furore when L'Equipe got hold of samples from Lance from 5 or 6 years previous. Lance was not held to account as there was no "B" sample (or one that Lance would provide)
    Armstrong did not pursue them for defamation/libel, but preferred to just spin it in the media.
    I wonder why?
  15. Hugh Jarse Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Meh.

    Let it go. So what if he did, there is very little to gain in exposing him. A lose-lose all round.

    Society needs role models and heros. We do not need to know that our heros Piri (wee poo) and fart like the rest of us do.
    Cutter likes this.
  16. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    To all those saying this just a European vendetta, its the USADA seeking to prosecute him. USADA stands for United States Anti-Doping Agency . . just sayin








    Edit: Curse your anti-slim ellipsis ninja auto edit.
  17. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    Yeah, that has merit, and as Joe mac said in his post.take the 7 tours off him and it is just as likely that the new winners are no less pure.
  18. It is what it is John Solomon (38)

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    Could a Dingo be involved ?
  19. Cutter Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Armstrong is an incredible role model. The good he has done for the world with his fund raising and cancer awareness renders his TdF feats irrelevant. However, his TdF feats are what enables him to raise the money, get entry to the offices of politicians etc. They will be less likely to talk to a convicted drug cheat (if he were to be convicted).

    In terms of the utility to humanity of this investigation, it is a huge negative in my view.
    Karl likes this.
  20. rugbyisfun Jimmy Flynn (14)

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    Some say steroid use increases the jaw line protrusion substantially, and in some cases , the proboscis as well. Could this explain the big honker on Sheryl Crow? Did she accidentally take a sip from one of Lance's specially marked water bottles in the fridge??
    maxdacat likes this.

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