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Laws Discussion - Law 21 In Goal

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by Gnostic, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    I think this is a very interesting point of General Discussion at the moment given the decision in the final RE:- Jantes picking up the ball and grounding it in his in goal.

    21.14 - "If a player who is in goal picks up a stationary ball within the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal.

    21.2 - picking up a ball is not grounding it..

    and just to confuse things

    21.15 - if a player who is in-goal picks up a moving ball within the field of play, that player has not taken the ball into in-goal.

    So obviously in this matter Gus ruled that Jantes picked up a stationary ball in the field of play and grounded it resulting in a scrum to the Crusaders. As with so many things that can happen in Rugby this has opened the referee up to criticism with people genuinely able to say the ball was moving and Law 21.15 should have applied, or even that the ball was simply on the line and therefore in-goal.

    So what do the GAGRs think?

    IMO - 21.14 &.15 are part of the Law Variations and do nothing to clarify and actually make it worse. Simplify the Laws - in all cases if the player playing the ball is out of play so therefore is the ball. So in cases like this if the player is in goal and picks it up he has obviously carried the ball back regardless of its motion. It is silly to contend otherwise. Do away with plane of touch, plane of the goal line etc etc etc. None of it is relevant.
  2. cyclopath Nathan Sharpe (72)

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    I think the ball rolled partly onto the line then off it, so was in play when he picked it up; he was behind the line, picked it up, and placed it in goal. I think Gardner was 100% correct. 21.2 and 21.15 don't apply here, I reckon. He did ground it, and it is debatable that the ball was really moving when he picked it up.
    That's what I think.
    Plus, Jantjies carried on too much! :p
  3. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    Jantes always carries on. He should have been a halfback.

    When I saw it I thought if it rolled onto the line and then off a good argument can be made to rule as 21.15.

    I put in 21.12 which is more about attacking players, just to spice the discussion and show that picking the ball up is playing it not grounding it.

    In any event I would dearly love to see these Law Variations simplify the Laws and remove the areas of genuine debate like this so we don't see more very good referees subjected to unwarranted criticism for entirely valid decisions, hence my opinion statement at the end.
  4. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    They have been. You have copied and pasted from old laws.

    Law 21.14 is now

    "if a player, who is in-goal, catches or picks up a ball that is still in the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal."

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    cyclopath likes this.
  5. waiopehu oldboy Rod McCall (65)

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    ^^^^^^^^ in fairness to Gnostic one of the comms (Smith or Marshall, I can't recall which) got it wrong, too, & Nisbo seemed a bit vague about the whole situation (as he increasingly does these days).
  6. Derpus Greg Davis (50)

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    Does the line count as in the field of play? I didn't think so.

    So basically he miscued that by about half a second. Fine margins eh.
  7. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    I actually went old school and typed them directly from my 2018 RA Referees Handbook.

    As suggested by your post I went to the World Rugby Website and had a look and they have been further updated.

    Whilst this question has been made moot by the update, which has indeed simplified the interpretation, this raises another issue in itself, that being the unco-ordinated release and updating of Laws. I fully understand that because of the shemozzle that is the global season any update will fall in the middle of a season, it just means that we simply must get a global season.
  8. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    The new laws were applicable from 1 January 2018.

    When did RA send out their 2018 handbook?

    Does your version have at the top of that law "Global Law Trial Applies see page 143"?

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