Le Tour 2011

[Bruwheresmycar]

Can someone explain why a rider like Cavendish who dominates the sprints is such a pussy in the mountains?
I mean, it's the same movement, using presumably the same muscles.... what's so different about going up hill?

Sprinting and Climbing are worlds apart . Sprinters are big guys with loads of power, they are built to unleash their speed over 100-500m. Climbers are (usually) small riders who specialize at holding a sustained pace up big climbs (and pushing big wattage up moutains), this also requires amazing cardio (i think that is the word, their heart muscles are amazing and are about 3x bigger than average).

I guess it would be like comparing Usain Bolt to Craig Mottram. Long distance running requires a totally different set of attributes. Usually the long distance runners have less muscle and have more endurance. I'm sure there is someone with a more clear explanation though, hope this isnt confusing.

 

[cyclopath]

Can someone explain why a rider like Cavendish who dominates the sprints is such a pussy in the mountains?
I mean, it's the same movement, using presumably the same muscles.... what's so different about going up hill?

Same reason Usain Bolt would go poorly in the 1500m, 5000m, 10000m etc...
Climbers are (usually) much lighter, with greater aerobic capacity, more slow twitch fibres in their muscles; sprinters are much heavier (harder to haul up a 20km mountain climb), better anaerobic ability, fast twitch fibres. Sprinters keep up on flat / minor hills due to being dragged along in the bunch, saving about 30% of the energy required to go it alone or at the front.
The experience of getting 80% of the way up a good climb, then suddenly going all anaerobic and "bonking" is one of the more unpleasant of my life - you go from fine to "Shit, if I can't unclip in a big hurry I'm gonna fall on my arse" in about 30 seconds.

Snap! Bru!

 

[Cat_A]

Can someone explain why a rider like Cavendish who dominates the sprints is such a pussy in the mountains?
I mean, it's the same movement, using presumably the same muscles.... what's so different about going up hill?

There are a bunch of reasons, but arguably the biggest reason is the relative amounts of muscle fibre types. There are 2 main types (but the fast twitch is usually sub-categorised into A and B):
Slow twitch: as the name suggests, they are the ones used in endurance. The way they produce energy is aerobic, which means they can contract over and over and over without getting fatigued, however they don't have the explosive power of the fast twitch fibres. They can also burn fats preferentially to carbs (not that these guys have that much fat), and as long as you have carbs available to burn you can keep going (if you run out of carbs you "bonk" - see pictures of people stumbling over finish lines, or when a rider looks like he just stops halfway up the Col). Because the slow twitch fibres spare the carbs (aka glycogen) they can keep going at the same intensity for ages.
Fast twitch: as the name suggests, they are the ones capable of contracting fast and producing raw power. They burn carbs over fats, and even at a "low" or non-sprinting intensity, they tend to use up more glycogen than slow twitch fibres and therefore can't go all-out for long. They're anaerobic and tend to produce lactic acid when they're working hard.

Cavendish would probably be able to sprint up a steep but very short mountain quickly once, but couldn't do it again. On sprint stages they take care of him so he doesn't have to exert himself and he can therefore conserve his energy and stay fresh for the burst of speed.

 

[light]

Schleck's are looking real good with 11.8km to go

 

[light]

Sammy Sanchez for EE could have it with this breakaway, Voeckler very impressive leading the peloton. Schlecks dropping off now

 

[Jethro Tah]

Andre greipel's victory over Mark Cavendish was a highlight for mine the two absolutely hate each other and Mark whilst a great sprinter doesnt really know much about humility, great to see him get a kick up the arse.

In defense of Cav, every time he wins he gives huge raps on Renshaw and his lead out team and also Cav was quoted as saying that Greipel has the perfect sprinters style. He needs his arse kicked once in a while but that only makes him come out stronger next time round.

 

[Jethro Tah]

Not a chance. Gilbert will be lucky to be in the top 50 come Paris. He's basically a sprinter who can go up hills and has a bit of distance in his legs, a guy who's built for the Ardennes classics - certainly not a GC contender in a three week stage race.

Yeah my bad on that with a lack of research. I was just going on his form thus far and the raps he is getting in the press. He tried to attack today on the last mountain and was doing okay ahead of the yellow jersey pack but then burnt out and finished in 12th and 4 minutes behind Schleck in the GC.

 

[Jethro Tah]

The Schlecks have got to be favourites now. Hopefully Cadel can stay within striking distance ready for the TT but I was worried to see him going it alone with no other BMC riders. Voeckler did well today to stay in yellow. Contador did not look comfortable at all at the end of the stage and lost more time in the GC. I was hoping to get a look at young aussie Richie Porte on Contador's team today but he was nowhere to be seen.

 

[Scotty]

Can someone explain why a rider like Cavendish who dominates the sprints is such a pussy in the mountains?
I mean, it's the same movement, using presumably the same muscles.... what's so different about going up hill?

Same difference as between a runner that can sprint or run marathons. I understand that of course Cavendish still has to go the whole distance, but generally he just sits back in the peleton and gets pulled along on the flat stages, then sprints at the ends, where as up the mountain there is much in the way of 'getting pulled along in the peleton' the riders are using their muscles constantly to keep them in touch. I'm sure the likes of Bruce could explain it better, something to do with anaerobic and aerobic abilities and fast and slow twitch muscle fibres, no doubt.


Sorry, just realised this has already been dealt with.

 

[rustycruiser]

Is Cadel liked by Aussie fans? There is something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. My favorite Cadel moment.

[video=youtube;-fe79ZuDKfk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fe79ZuDKfk[/video]

 

[rustycruiser]

Great ride by Tommy Voeckler today to stay with the GC contenders. He was the same way in 03 when he wouldn't give up and made Armstrong work to get the yellow jersey off his back. He might keep it another day tomorrow, as there is a 40 km downhill ride to the finish after the big HC climb up Aubisque for him to recover. Saturday, might be a hill too far. Frank looked good today, and I was a little surprised to see Contador lose more time.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

In defense of Cav, every time he wins he gives huge raps on Renshaw and his lead out team and also Cav was quoted as saying that Greipel has the perfect sprinters style. He needs his arse kicked once in a while but that only makes him come out stronger next time round.

He was lot better in defeat this time. Renshaw def does do a mountain of work for him.

 

[light]

I support him


.... only cause we have no one else

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Is Cadel liked by Aussie fans? There is something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. My favorite Cadel moment.

Cadel seems alright. At least he's got a personality and isn't afraid to speak his mind. Nothing really to hate him for IMO. Just don't touch his dog

 

[bryce]

Is Cadel liked by Aussie fans? There is something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. My favorite Cadel moment.

I can understand his reaction - the Tour must be an absolute pressure cooker with the way the media goes on over there. It was similar a few years ago when he'd broken his shoulder and he was getting mobbed and touched and he lashed out. You only need look at the incident a few days ago when the car knocked those riders. I remember reading an interview with Evans in which he said he hates all the media attention and the harassment that goes with the tour.

I like the bloke.

 

[Moses]

What a great finish tonight <10 ks to go and all the names are in a breakaway

Andy Shleck has made three attacks, Cadel leading the response. Would be nice to see Cadel make a break

 

[Gagger]

Awesome stage. Did Schleck leave it too late?

Cadel looked like he was about to puke up the whole final climb but just ground it out. Got em where he wants em?

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

This is all playing into Cadel's hands. Everyone is riding like a scared little girl (besides Sanchez), all Cadel needs to do is hold on and extend his lead over the other GC guys in the TT.

However, the reason for these disappointing stages is probably energy related. They are all saving up as much energy as possible for the final few climbs. Where the attacks should come.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I thought it was a great stage last night, with all the main contenders and the thrust and parry that went with it. Evans would have been very happy with how he went I think.

 

[light]

I'm tipping a big Contador attack in the next two stages. The Schleck's have been doing all the work and Contador still has to make up 3 mins or so on Andy. Cadel placed well if he can follow. Basso the real surprise for mine, don't think he'll win but he's doing a good job of staying up there.

If I had to make a call on the top 3 it would be: A. Schleck, Evans, Contador.