Proposed Nations Championship

[zer0]

Probably closer to the truth than we care to admit.

Look at Soccer man. South America generally produce the most talented and exciting footballers, but also generally lose all their best players to Europe.

I see absolutely no reason why rugby won't go exactly the same way. All of NZ, SA and Aus are about to lose, probably, thousands of test caps from Super rugby to Europe and Japan.

Just the way of the world. People go where the money is. And people in Europe have no sunlight so they watch sport for their serotonin fix.

F*ck that. I'd rather NZR wind things up, shimmy over to League and troll the NRL before becoming a talent farm for a bunch of reckless European clubs.

And I find League f*cken tedious.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Probably closer to the truth than we care to admit.

Look at Soccer man. South America generally produce the most talented and exciting footballers, but also generally lose all their best players to Europe.

I see absolutely no reason why rugby won't go exactly the same way. All of NZ, SA and Aus are about to lose, probably, thousands of test caps from Super rugby to Europe and Japan.

Just the way of the world. People go where the money is. And people in Europe have no sunlight so they watch sport for their serotonin fix.

Yeah, tongue was really only half sticking out there. At least the Japanese club rugby is on at a good timezone. Wouldn't mind checking it out.

These things tend to work to a power law - those that have, get more and more of the pie, those that don't get less and less.

And we don't have

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think it's a lot more likely that if SANZAAR still agree to expand the RC to 6 teams that it'll be with Japan and the US and without any promotion / relegation - at least to start with. Without the extra cash the Nations Championship was going to bring I think there's no way SANZAAR chose Fiji over the US. The US are still weaker at this stage but they have the biggest economy in the world and a fledgling professional league that's basically aligned with the SH season. On the other hand all the top Fijian guys play in Europe and will be told by their clubs to make themselves unavailable for the RC window. I don't know how that can be overcome unless someone very wealthy decides to fund Fijian rugby and basically sign their top 25-30 players to contracts.

Yeah. It's a pretty tough spot for them to be in. A solution could be for each of the Super Rugby franchises to open up 3-5 roster spots for Fijian players on top of their participation in GRR. Even 2 would go a long way alongside their GRR team. This would provide them with a solid 40-50 players to draw from.

If they went with the 6 I'd like them to go the extra step of setting up two divisions. With promotion and relegation on a biennial basis. This would give teams two years in the top division in order to get at least 10 games against quality opposition. You could use the PI teams and the top 3 Americas teams beyond the USA (if they are included in the RC) which would give you at present a 2nd Div. of Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, Uruguay and Brazil.

I also think now that WR (World Rugby) has conceded on the NC concept that they should start talking to Forrest about building out a 2nd Div. in GRR based around 'national franchises'. So GRR could run it's planned 8 team format next year but from 2021 a 2nd div. featuring in essence the national teams with perhaps small allowances for imports from the likes of Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, Sri Lanka etc. would play a corresponding league structure home and away for 14 games.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yeah, tongue was really only half sticking out there. At least the Japanese club rugby is on at a good timezone. Wouldn't mind checking it out.

These things tend to work to a power law - those that have, get more and more of the pie, those that don't get less and less.

And we don't have

May be we could petition the Top League to get our 4 franchises playing in that structure if that's the case. Only half kidding here. Hell, having just noticed that pretty much all of our veteran 10s are off to Japan next year this might be a solid option.Get the Force on board bring along Fiji and either one of the Kafiga based in Western Sydney or the Tigers. 16 teams playing 15 games with an 18 team finals series. Maintain Wallabies eligibility as long as they are competing in this competition. At least then we'd be able to see our players regualry as well as a fair few of NZ and SA's best as well.

 

[Derpus]

May be we could petition the Top League to get our 4 franchises playing in that structure if that's the case. Only half kidding here. Hell, having just noticed that pretty much all of our veteran 10s are off to Japan next year this might be a solid option.Get the Force on board bring along Fiji and either one of the Kafiga based in Western Sydney or the Tigers. 16 teams playing 15 games with an 18 team finals series. Maintain Wallabies eligibility as long as they are competing in this competition. At least then we'd be able to see our players regualry as well as a fair few of NZ and SA's best as well.

Screw NZ?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Screw NZ?

More like I don't care about NZ anymore. At rhis level we need to worry about ourselves first and foremost.

 

[Derpus]

I would be all for it if the Japanese teams would have us. Have my doubts though.

 

[Bandar]

Yeah, I know years ago the Tokyo Crusaders and Tokyo Gaijin who were mostly made up of forign workers could only get so far in the Tokyo comp before they were dropped to lower divisions for some obscure flouting of the rules. They were never allowed to compete at the top levels - the Japanese made sure they always won. Can't see them allowing us to win their major rugby competition.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yeah, I know years ago the Tokyo Crusaders and Tokyo Gaijin who were mostly made up of forign workers could only get so far in the Tokyo comp before they were dropped to lower divisions for some obscure flouting of the rules. They were never allowed to compete at the top levels - the Japanese made sure they always won. Can't see them allowing us to win their major rugby competition.

Bigger crowds and TV audiences might help but it's unlikely RA would even entertain it as an option anyway despite our Super Rugby teams building corporate relationships with Japanese companies.

 

[Omar Comin']

Yeah. It's a pretty tough spot for them to be in. A solution could be for each of the Super Rugby franchises to open up 3-5 roster spots for Fijian players on top of their participation in GRR. Even 2 would go a long way alongside their GRR team. This would provide them with a solid 40-50 players to draw from.

If they went with the 6 I'd like them to go the extra step of setting up two divisions. With promotion and relegation on a biennial basis. This would give teams two years in the top division in order to get at least 10 games against quality opposition. You could use the PI teams and the top 3 Americas teams beyond the USA (if they are included in the RC) which would give you at present a 2nd Div. of Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, Uruguay and Brazil.

I think that could be good, but even with a scheme like that it'd still be hard to attract Fiji's top players away from European clubs unless they were also paid significantly for representing Fiji. Super rugby salaries alone don't compete with what the French clubs pay.

I like the idea of a 2nd division but I also like the idea of expanding to 7 or 8 teams. And maybe more in the longer term, with 2 groups and a final if it gets to the point where 10+ teams are genuinely competitive. That'd take some time. As it is more will need to be done to increase the competitiveness of Japan and the US if they are to be added any time soon. Those markets are very attractive to SANZAAR but if both teams are getting smashed in most games for several years that would harm the tournament.

 

[Braveheart81]

 

[Bandar]

Anyway having thought about the international stuff a bit more, we could still go with league of nations concept - just don't include the current 6 nations.

Maybe have 2 divisions of 8 then 3 regional divisions of 6 after that.
Div 1:
New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Fiji, Japan, Georgia, USA

Div 2:
Tonga, Samoa, Romania, Uruguay, Spain, Canada, Russia, Namibia

Div 3 Americas/Africa:
Brazil, Chile, Kenya, Colombia, Zimbabwe, Tunisia

Div 3 Europe:
Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland

Div 3 Asia/Oceania:
Hong Kong, Korea, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Cook Islands, Singapore

I think you play every 2nd (year before and after a world cup), it is only 7 tests for the top 2 divisions who can then play return matches of their choosing - so Australia would probably play NZ & SA twice.

That would still allow a tour of the 6 nations where they pay you handsomely to come and visit them. (Although I would like to leave them out completely and see how long until them come and want to join in)

 

[Adam84]

Well.,. Thats close to a nail in the coffin for Australian rugby... that money was absolutely critical to survive

 

[Dan54]

Anyway having thought about the international stuff a bit more, we could still go with league of nations concept - just don't include the current 6 nations.

Maybe have 2 divisions of 8 then 3 regional divisions of 6 after that.
Div 1:
New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Fiji, Japan, Georgia, USA

Div 2:
Tonga, Samoa, Romania, Uruguay, Spain, Canada, Russia, Namibia

Div 3 Americas/Africa:
Brazil, Chile, Kenya, Colombia, Zimbabwe, Tunisia

Div 3 Europe:
Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland

Div 3 Asia/Oceania:
Hong Kong, Korea, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Cook Islands, Singapore

I think you play every 2nd (year before and after a world cup), it is only 7 tests for the top 2 divisions who can then play return matches of their choosing - so Australia would probably play NZ & SA twice.

That would still allow a tour of the 6 nations where they pay you handsomely to come and visit them. (Although I would like to leave them out completely and see how long until them come and want to join in)

Only trouble is Bandar, what TV is going to pay for it?

 

[Bandar]

Only trouble is Bandar, what TV is going to pay for it?

Pffft, I didn’t say it was going to make much money

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Anyway having thought about the international stuff a bit more, we could still go with league of nations concept - just don't include the current 6 nations.

Maybe have 2 divisions of 8 then 3 regional divisions of 6 after that.
Div 1:
New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina, Fiji, Japan, Georgia, USA

Div 2:
Tonga, Samoa, Romania, Uruguay, Spain, Canada, Russia, Namibia

Div 3 Americas/Africa:
Brazil, Chile, Kenya, Colombia, Zimbabwe, Tunisia

Div 3 Europe:
Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Poland

Div 3 Asia/Oceania:
Hong Kong, Korea, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Cook Islands, Singapore

I think you play every 2nd (year before and after a world cup), it is only 7 tests for the top 2 divisions who can then play return matches of their choosing - so Australia would probably play NZ & SA twice.

That would still allow a tour of the 6 nations where they pay you handsomely to come and visit them. (Although I would like to leave them out completely and see how long until them come and want to join in)

Cut Georgia and Romania out of it. They actively campaigned against the nations championship structure. Also, a full strength Spain os better than both Romania and Russia.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ why? I thought Georgia in particular had ambitions to become Tier 1?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think that could be good, but even with a scheme like that it'd still be hard to attract Fiji's top players away from European clubs unless they were also paid significantly for representing Fiji. Super rugby salaries alone don't compete with what the French clubs pay.

I like the idea of a 2nd division but I also like the idea of expanding to 7 or 8 teams. And maybe more in the longer term, with 2 groups and a final if it gets to the point where 10+ teams are genuinely competitive. That'd take some time. As it is more will need to be done to increase the competitiveness of Japan and the US if they are to be added any time soon. Those markets are very attractive to SANZAAR but if both teams are getting smashed in most games for several years that would harm the tournament.

Cannot speak for Japan but MLR has been developing in terms of standard rather quickly. The quality of the first round this year was clearly higher than the end of the first season and the final couple of rounds were well ahead of that.

Against what will likely be more 2nd string XVs they'll be competitive enough to start.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

^ why? I thought Georgia in particular had ambitions to become Tier 1?

They are but they wanted to enter the structure in the top division and npt have to win promotion.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Only trouble is Bandar, what TV is going to pay for it?

I guess the question would be how much pf the offer was made up based on the 6Ns teams participation.