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Marriage Equality

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jets, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. AngrySeahorse Peter Sullivan (51)

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    @Southsider. Yes, I think it varies from person to person. Your uncle is going to be different to me, & I'm different to others in the gay community. All I'll say is I just would like marriage to be called marriage. I don't want it under any other kind of category. For it to be under a different category kind of makes it seem lesser or not the same - even if it still carries all the same rights. So I don't really think there is much difference between the two but I think for many, including myself, it is the symbolism & principle of not accepting anything different to what "everybody else is already used to".
  2. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    yea fair enough :)
    AngrySeahorse likes this.
  3. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    ok, maybe I missed a couple :-(

    Sorry
    TOCC likes this.
  4. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    We live in a country with no state religion. People are free to practice whatever religion they like or none at all.

    Tradition or history has no relevance to our laws. Our laws have adapted as our society has progressed and changed.

    This whole argument is kind of a fait accompli in my opinion. Australia is far from the most socially progressive western democracy and we are following a path that other countries have already gone down. We're not doing anything new or extraordinary in the slightest.

    Whether gay marriage becomes legal is one year or ten years, it will happen. The public sentiment in favour of gay marriage will continue to increase until it becomes a negative for a major political party not to accept it.
  5. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    Your obtuse thickheadedness is getting very frustrating, but sadly it's typical of the attitude you get when you try too use reason and logic with dogmatic Christians and other religious fundies. What else does the Bible say we should do with homosexuals? If your good book is so authoritative let's roll out all of it's rules and consequences for gay people shall we? It's not even a decent moral code - all of the useful and sensible morals in the Bible are borrowed from pre-existing philosophies and religions that predate Christianity by thousands of years. The only uniquely Christian morals are the patently ridiculous ones. Try reading ALL of the 10 commandments again and them delete the ones common to most of humanity, like treating others as yourself, and see what you're left with. It's an amusing exercise.

    Your religious text might be widely read but it so is Stephen King and they're both fantasy. Worldwide floods and Arks that held all the animals on the planet, creationism, the ascension, walking on water - the list goes on. It can't lay claim to reality let alone co-opt ownership and control of a pre-existing social contract. Marriage is not a religious institution. Religion attached their own dogmas and agendas to it. Period. It's not even debatable. I'm all for live and let live but when Christians start thinking they can dictate social governance, legal regulation and morality to the rest of society I get a little irate. Separation of Church and State ring any bells?

    The fear religious groups have of gays and gay marriage is a symptom of a lot more than intolerance, it's a sign of the fear they have of their increasing irrelevance in modern society and their loss of influence and power. The worse it gets they harder and more desperately they cling onto what they think are defendable beach heads and Marriage is one of the big ones.
    yourmatesam, Swat, ChargerWA and 3 others like this.
  6. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    cool story bro,,,,not going to reply if you act like a dick, having a different opinion is fine no need to make it personal
  7. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    Oh please, Christians themselves don't even want the marriage act based on Christianity or any other religious tradition. If our marriage act was based on Christianity, polygamy would probably be legal. Yet polygamists are up there with homosexuals on the catholic hit-list.

    I've had a brief look at the thread. And it appears people have responded to your thoughts with very good counter arguments, and highlighted endless flaws and inconsistancies in the logic you've been using.

    If someone faced with this sort of criticism just brushes it all off and continues to post the same of debunked rhetoric, the only option left is to patronize them. It's up to the mods whether or not to ban you from the discussion before it gets to that point.
    yourmatesam, Swat, Moses and 3 others like this.
  8. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    Right, so as Bru says, you ignore repeated and reasoned argument and keep trotting out the same tired and bigoted crap and I'm the one acting like a dick when I call it for what it is? Its a good way to avoid responding to the issues of course.
    yourmatesam, Swat, ChargerWA and 2 others like this.
  9. TOCC Guest

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    That is a misconception, cultures which aren't christian or have zero relation to the 10 commandments also follow similar basic laws of society.. The Roman empire(pre Christianity) displayed the foundations of many of the principles we live by today..

    I will reiterate that religion has zero representation or influence in the Australian constitution..

    Reference Dubai, restaurants are not open between sunrise and sunset, some resorts/hotels will have closed off areas for westerners, however public places accessible by the general population are no eating/drinking zones..

    Ramadan isn't something you "practice", it's a period of time where muslims observe fasting.. As for my participation, I have been invited over to friends and work colleagues houses for the fast-breaking meals.. During the daytime(ie fasting) as a cultural practice I avoid eating or drinking in front of those fasting.. It's purely a means of showing respect to my friends and people I work with.
  10. TOCC Guest

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    Going slightly off topic, Dubai is the biggest representation of Arabic-western fusion in the world. A person should not consider themselves to have truly witnessed the middle east if Dubai is the only city they have visited.

    Dubai is designed to accommodate western tourists and businessmen..
  11. Sully John Eales (66)

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    No I get a marriage licence from the government. Not a civil union certificate

    Sent using Tapatalk
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  12. cyclopath Phil Waugh (73)

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    Marriage in our society carries a legal, and for some, a religious implication. There is no obligation on any party that they adhere to the religious overtones to fulfill the legal contract. If you choose to get married, and wish to conduct such ceremony in a place of worship, or under the auspices of your faith, that is your right, and I would defend it. It does not make your marriage vows more valid than those uttered in a "civil" ceremony. Nobody owns the concept of marriage as separate to a "wedding". Comparison to Jewish faith and saying one could not partake in a Bar-Mitzvah as a Christian is a nonsense, as the two ceremonies are in no way analagous. By the way, many Christians do just that, but call it Confirmation, or First Communion. It's all just words.
    Defining gay unions as anything but marriage by definition attaches connotations of difference and decreased worth, and this is the crux of it for me. They should all be defined the same, the legal implications insofar as estates, superannuation, healthcare should all be the same.
    Anything else is just mummery.
    IMO.
    yourmatesam, Swat, ChargerWA and 6 others like this.
  13. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    just cause you think theyre reasoned arguments doesnt make then so, same goes for mine..i think everything youve spouted out of your mouth is crap but rather than tell you that id rather debate the point like everyone else here is doing.and i guess your not acting like a dick a dick has a use, at the moment i fail to see yours..
  14. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    So your answer to my question is that the Bible says that gay acts are a sin. I think its dangerous when people base there views on what's written in the bible. There's some powerful parables in the bible, and yes there are some good lessons on how to live our lives, but there is also a lot of nonsense in there. Some of it has been scientifically proven to be made up, other traditions and rules in the bible have even discarded by the church.

    Do you seriously believe everything in the bible and abide by all of its outdated rules and rituals?! I would guess not. No one does. Not even the Church. Still funny how many people seem to use that exert to justify there views on gays.

    This is not an attack on your religion. im questioning your selective adoption of its scripture.
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  15. cyclopath Phil Waugh (73)

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    Be very careful, southsider.
    That is not necessary - I'll let it be, as Karl had a bit of a crack before.
    No more vaguely personal insults.
    From anyone.
  16. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    What a ridiculous statement. The 10 commandments are certainly not reflected by the "laws and principles" we live by. In fact, the number of commandments supported by our laws are outnumbered by the number of commandments contradicted by our laws.
    MrMouse likes this.
  17. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    So debate the point then.

    And the use of a dick is at the root of your problem.
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  18. Ruggo Mark Ella (57)

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    I don't buy into the sanctity of marrige argument as the divorce rate has already trashed that. Personally I believe if two people regardless of sexual oriantation share a love strong enough to commit to a life together then that should be what matters.

    I also think this issue runs deep into our individual faiths and beliefs so we should tread lightly when expressing our views and strongly avoid demonizing people on the base of theirs.
  19. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    This is a really interesting issue and one that always challenges me. At the risk of making a statement that I may not be able to back up fully, :rolleyes: I think 'equality' is a dangerous thing to pursue. I believe this because of this reason; every single one of us is different, so why do we all want to be treated the same? I don't think we do, but it's the best word we have come up with. We don't necessarily want to be treated equally, just fairly and without discrimination. Sometimes in the search for equality the minority are given favourable treatment at the detriment of the majority. I'm not saying it is in this case though.

    We're all different and we will all want/need different things. Some things we can have and others we can not. This is ok becuase it's the way things are. I think what we need to do as a society is to ensure that we do not discriminate and there is a fine difference. If someone can not have something, we need to make sure the reasons that they cannot have something are rational and are not based on any form of prejudice.

    On the topic of gay marriage, I think that it is hard not to agree with those that support it. What I think we to make sure of though, is that the needs and sensitivities of those opposed are not simply disregarded. When you have heads of religious groups making absurd homophobic statements it is hard, but don't lump all people who oppose it on religious grounds in the same group as these people. Gay marriage is going to happen and I think it is going to happen very soon. No doubt. And in 5 years; 10 years after the fact the vast majority of people will look back and think that this whole debate was kinda silly. But right now, sensitivity needs to be shown to both sides. This strikes at the heart of being inclusive.
    Braveheart81 likes this.
  20. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    I agree that sensitivity is important.

    I think that it becomes difficult when rational discussions are continually met with strawman arguments. So often, a discussion about gay marriage will be met with "but having children is at the centre of what marriage is all about, so that is why marriage should always be between a man and a woman." This is such a typical strawman argument and falls down on so many levels yet it is trotted out by the Christian Lobby and all the family values people at every turn.

    The other one which has been used so frequently in this thread is that marriage is a Christian institution and should therefore be guided by Christian values and traditions. No matter how much historical evidence is presented, it seems hard to persuade people against this point.
    Godfrey and Scoey like this.

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