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Marriage Equality

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jets, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    I'm not certain it's that fine a line. Certainly those in the latter category will probably subscribe to the former argument also but I don't think there's necessarily as close a gap between the two as you think. For some at least it's a big step from just opposing marriage between two people of the same sex on religious grounds to saying there's something wrong with who they are. But maybe that's just me too?
  2. Scoey Tony Shaw (54)

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    @ nomis. Couldn't agree more!!!! Why can't I put it like that! :D
  3. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    "There’s a strong belief in society that says if you truly want to love someone you have to endorse their lifestyle choices.". - That's a sweeping statement with no evidence in support. I am unaware of any such strong belief in society.

    That statement is also the corner stone of much of the rest of your proposition which means you start on a tangent and end up nowhere sensible.

    And everything we think we know about Jesus is contained in a revisionist tool of the early church that has largely been unable to be corroborated by any independent or historical sources. It's also full of fanciful fiction that a discerning 10 year old knows is ridiculous.

    All you're describing is tolerance and frankly the Bible (or any Monotheistic religious text) is the last place I'd go for lessons on that front. Thousands of years of years of Christianity and Islam and they're still discriminating against homosexuals and women and blowing up infidels to name but a few.
    ChargerWA likes this.
  4. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    your complaining about intolerence yet you are the first to be intolerant of other peoples opinions, you have a go at us for discrimination but your doing th exact same thing..and dont group christianity and islam in the same group, just further showing your ignorance.think its about time you leave this conversation, and let others who are happy to debate and show respect get on with it
  5. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    Christianity and Islam are in the same group. "Monotheistic Organised Religion". Or Abrahamic religion. There is a strong historical and traditional connection between them. They share a common origin in the Middle East. Muslims consider Christians to be People of the Book. They share at their core the same golden commandments of loving god and loving ones neighbor. The Qur'an has references to people and events that also come up in the Bible. Islam teaches that Jesus was an important prophet of God. Should I keep going? Ask yourself who's ignorance has been demonstrated here. They're both no better than stone age cults in my view but I tolerate them just fine so long as their modern leaders don't keep trying to force their inconsistent, hypocritical and
    discriminatory dogmas down societies collective throat.

    And I am not intolerant of other peoples opinions, I am intolerant of people who continue to argue against overwhelming fact and reason because reality doesn't suit their prejudices. All intolerance is not equal. Being intolerant of differences in others because you're fearful or ignorant is not the same as intolerance with antisocial attitudes that stem from stupidity and bigotry.

    And you don't determine when I leave a conversation. That's up to me or the Mods. I realize you don't like the message, the truth is uncomfortable for those who prefer the willing suspension of disbelief involved with submission to Abrahamic religious beliefs and values.
    Braveheart81 and Godfrey like this.
  6. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    So anyway, Gay Marriage. It's only OK if you ignore what God says.

    That about sum it up?
  7. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    really your going to teach me about the origins of my own religion :rolleyes: im well aware about what youve said, sure theres a couple of resemblences and there are parts of our religion that mentions the other but ask any practising person from either religion wether they are the same and see what answer you get

    you clearly are, i think what ive said is fact and reson, again just because YOU have said it doesnt mean its so, who the hell do you think you are to be the deciding factor in what is fact or reason? im well capable of listening to other peoples opinions, respecting them and debating them, you are not. and why isnt intolerence equal, you bleating for equality in everything else so why not this, remeber your argument, cant just pick and choose the bits you like, your either for it or against it.

    again you have a strong problem with stating obvious useless facts, i know i cant tell you to leave, i didnt say leave now and dont come back, it was a suggestion because all your doing is being inflammatory and looking for a fight rather than a disscussion and if your going to be a keyboard warrior you can go elsewhere to do it
  8. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    I challenge any poster on this thread defending religions right to discriminate against gays to appropriately explain how two gay people marrying devalues their own marriage.

    Why does the marriage between myself and my wife not devalue their marriage, but if my brother was to marry his boyfriend it would somehow offend them and the sanctityof their marriage.

    Anyway you cut it, the argument against gay marriage is born out of organised religions discrimination of gay people. It is bigotry pure and simple, repackaged as a defence of the institution of marriage.
  9. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence
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  10. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    it doesnt, nobody i dont think has argued that point
  11. TOCC Guest

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    I get that, and don't interpret the "false pretense" comment as me referring to religious beliefs, it was in reference to marriage pre-dating Christianity and thus negating any claim of ownership over marriage by Christians.

    Legally and constitutionally marriage is not reserved for the religious domain..

    If someone finds that offensive, please explain to me why?
    Scoey likes this.
  12. TOCC Guest

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    I know plenty of people who are religious and happy to intermingle with gay people. Heck, I still consider myself catholic, albeit not a practicing one.. And myself and plenty of other Christians are all pro gay marriage..

    The reason I initially quoted your comment is because you broadly took aim at religious groups and insinuated that anyone religious believes what homosexuals believe in should be "demonized". This is not true, a large number of people believe marriage should be retained to heterosexual couples for nostalgic/traditionalist reasons rather then religious ones.

    Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they object to homosexuality and are anti pro gay marriage..

    Many religious people don't take the bible too literally as it obviously hasn't evolved with the times.
    Scoey likes this.
  13. Karl Bill McLean (32)

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    You're barely making sense now.

    YOU said I was showing my ignorance when I put Christianity and Islaam in the same group. Once again you come out after me and ignore the FACT that they are in the same group, or category of religion. Abrahamic Religions. Look it up. I didn't invent it, that is how scholars group them. I never said they were the same.

    And just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean my input on Christianity is unworthy to be laid at your pious feet. I probably went through a lot more critical examination of Christianity in the process of deciding it wasn't for me (after a very religious upbringing) than most religious fundie sheep ever apply to their "faith".

    I don't decide facts and reason. Facts are just facts. That's the nature of them. Like the FACT that marriage predates Christianity and is not a Christian invention or even, in it's origin, a religious one. Whether something is reasonable is a commonly applied standard that seeks to apply the reasonable man test. That takes a lot of things into account, things that are commonly absent from the arguments of faith based religious fundies who begin at being pissed off and indignant that anyone would dare question the existence of their God and the right of his Chosen Ones to dictate terms for the rest of us. We're all expected to assume the truth of that and move on from there.

    Keyboard warrior? Inflammatory? Harden up buttercup.
  14. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    thanks keyboard warrior appreciate it, hope you dont run your mouth like you do on here on the rugby field, id imagine youd cop quite a hiding if you do
  15. BDA Peter Johnson (47)

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    I just find it hard to fathom that the only reason these people don't want gay marriage is for (as you put it) "nostalgic" and "traditionalist" reasons, yet they feel so passionate about it, that they're willing to ostracise a group of the community. tradition/nostalgia seems like a petty reason to oppose equal rights. That's just my two cents.
  16. TOCC Guest

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    People are capable of holding an opinion on a subject without feeling the need to passionately debate something at the picket line. There is a significant difference..
    Like i said, don't stereotype everyone religious as been anti-gay, because its just not true.

    BDA, do a little more research because religious types are not the only ones debating against gay marriage, nor is the reason for debate purely on religious grounds.
    Scoey likes this.
  17. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    Then explain the reasoning behind your objection to gay marriage. Who does it harm?
  18. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    There is no debate to be had. If we aren't grown up enough to introduce a marriage policy that doesn't discriminate, then the government shouldn't adopt such a policy. The sort of logic which justifies this discrimination could justify all sorts of horrible policies.

    So the only possible argument to be had is about whether or not the government needs to have a marriage policy. Which no one wants to have anyway.
  19. southsider Arch Winning (36)

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    harm probably isnt the right word to use

    as for reasoning ive already outlined that, look through the rest of the thread
  20. Bruwheresmycar Nicholas Shehadie (39)

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    lol, where have i seen this before?


    /inside joke
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