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Mining and the Greens

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Tangawizi

Peter Fenwicke (45)
From an Australian R&D point of view, I'll be interested to see how Dyesol go with their Solar Steel project. Meant to be launching a demonstration roof with Tata Steel in Wales later in the month (moved project to Wales due to lack of Oz Govt Support). If this product is any good and cost competitive, you'd think it will fly off the shelves once commercially launched. Not sure how far off that is at this stage though but if all the Steel Roofs around the country were able to generate power, the need for grid/coal based electricity would be cut dramatically.

http://www.dyesol.ws/DSC Corus Dyesol.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...power-innovators/story-e6frg9hf-1225790221469
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Confirmation that Labor will again rape the upper and middle classes to pay for their socialist regime:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...it-the-well-paid/story-e6frg6nf-1226018016524

Not sure about you guys, but I'm getting a little tired of working my arse off to pay for other peoples benefits, only to then be hit with increased taxation and further reduction in benefits so that others effectively don't have to change their lifestyles. I mean where is the incentive to get low income earners into more work and to reduce their spending, when a) others pay for their dole cheques and b) they never have to pay for an increase in cost of living.

If this isn't socialist style, I don't know what is (of course without the nationalised industry - although that might also come our way with this carbon taxation).
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Tangawizi, those Dyesol guys look interesting.

Scotty, it's death by a thousand cuts at the moment. Flood levy that only half of Australia pays and now this. I have a strong suspicion that there will be a hard slap of reality at the next election. Tony Windsor was on the radio this morning appearing to back away from the carbon tax. I think his spidey senses are tingling about how badly this lot are doing.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Agree TBH, it just gets worse and worse. Downhill all the way!

Anyway, back to our belief that technology is the only way to save us, this is interesting.

http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/deeper-faster-cheaper


The transformation of Australian industry into a low-carbon economy is often said to depend on the development of smart and high technology, but some of the country’s most prospective clean energy resources could be unlocked by some good old-fashioned mining know-how.

A Kalgoorlie-based drilling company, Coretrack, believes new drilling technology that it is has unveiled in the past two months could shave millions of dollars off the costs of drilling for geothermal resources, and enable aspiring developers to prove up resources at a fraction of the cost they currently face.

If proven, it will be a critical breakthrough for the Australian geothermal industry, which has been stranded at the starting gate because of the huge up-front costs of drilling programs, and the reluctance of investors to commit large sums to high-risk new technology.
A total of seven geothermal firms have received promises of $50 million funding grants from the federal government under its Geothermal Drilling Program. But these monies remain largely untouched, because none of the five recipients in round two of the program – allocated in late 2009 – have been able to provide matching funding.
Drilling for geothermal wells can cost $15 to $20 million, and Australian developers have been frustrated by the lack of rigs in the country and the “premium” rates demanded by rig owners to ship to Australia. Only Geodynamics owns its own rigs – at a cost of more than $40 million – and this is now being used by joint venture partner Origin Energy to pursue shallower geothermal resources in the Cooper Basin.
Coretrack has spent four years as a listed R&D company – an adventurous place to be in Australia – but is now looking to cross over into commercialisation. It pocketed its first revenues last month, with a $711,000 contract with Woodside for a 20-day program to build a shallow and wide hole using the GT3000 rig.

The GT3000 is the brainchild of Coretrack director Warren Strange, who in between coming to grief in Dakar rallies on his motorbike, built up a large drilling business before selling out to Brandrill for an estimated $26 million. He kept one subsidiary, Blowdrill, and an idea to build the fastest, most compact and manoeuvrable, most affordable deep drilling rig in the world, and one designed specifically for the geothermal industry.

Coretrack says the GT 3000 has been achieving hard rock penetration rates of more than 30 metres an hour, many times faster than the existing platform-based drill rigs. It has used just a three-man crew and consumed only 14.6 litres of diesel per hour, compared to as much as 600 litres per hour used in competing oil and gas rigs.

The Salamander 1 well drilled by Panax Geothermal in South Australia in 2010 reached a depth of 4025 metres after 42 days and at a cost of $15 million. That equates to an average drill rate of 95 metres a day at a cost of $3,750 per metre. It says the GT3000 could have done the same job in half the time and half the cost.

Coretrack's chairman Matthew Birney says the company is currently negotiating with several oil and gas companies, as well as geothermal companies, for the right to use the first rig.
“Geothermal drilling up to now has require one of those massive platform rigs. They show up with 60 or 80 trailer loads of gear. It costs them several million dollars before the drilling is even started. We can put it on a low loader, set it up in a day or two instead of weeks, and operate it with four people instead of more than 20.”

Susan Jeanes, the head of the Australian Geothermal Energy Association, says if the technology is proved it will be a “game-changer” for the industry. Jeanes says the association has long recognised the issue of drilling as a significant barrier to the development of geothermal, and has organised a geothermal research initiative with the CSIRO and several universities to pursue new technologies.

She says the problem with many of the companies involved in the GDP program is that the contracts do not allow for new technologies, so it was not entirely clear if this would allow them to use the Blowdrill rig. Yet another hurdle to overcome.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I know one of my former employers, a large multi-national oilfield services and engineering company, did some drilling in the Cooper Basin for a speccy geothermal company a few years back. There is certainly some interest in hot rocks out there and like wave power, it provides base load. It's not like the technology isn't proven either. Countries in volcanic zones use it quite a bit, like Iceland, The Philippines and NZ.
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
Confirmation that Labor will again rape the upper and middle classes to pay for their socialist regime:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...it-the-well-paid/story-e6frg6nf-1226018016524

Not sure about you guys, but I'm getting a little tired of working my arse off to pay for other peoples benefits, only to then be hit with increased taxation and further reduction in benefits so that others effectively don't have to change their lifestyles. I mean where is the incentive to get low income earners into more work and to reduce their spending, when a) others pay for their dole cheques and b) they never have to pay for an increase in cost of living.

If this isn't socialist style, I don't know what is (of course without the nationalised industry - although that might also come our way with this carbon taxation).

Reductio ad absurdum (reductio ad socialism)?
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
I know one of my former employers, a large multi-national oilfield services and engineering company, did some drilling in the Cooper Basin for a speccy geothermal company a few years back. There is certainly some interest in hot rocks out there and like wave power, it provides base load. It's not like the technology isn't proven either. Countries in volcanic zones use it quite a bit, like Iceland, The Philippines and NZ.

We have excellent geothermal capacity. A combination of it and solar thermal, with out existing wind capacity, and possibly some tidal development, would be sufficient to power most of Australia with current technology, and, moving forward, possibly actually export renewable power.
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
The only issue we have with Geothermal is the transmission loss from having the turbines out in the desert (e.g. Cooper Basin). If that can be resolved then I think it's viable. Wave power from folks like Carnegie makes sense for coastal communities.
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
The only issue we have with Geothermal is the transmission loss from having the turbines out in the desert (e.g. Cooper Basin). If that can be resolved then I think it's viable. Wave power from folks like Carnegie makes sense for coastal communities.

Transmission loss is the major issue for all of Australia's possible renewable sources. The oft quoted figure is $140 billion dollars to replace our entire existing grid, and $35 billion over 10 years to make transmission serviceable. What ever we chose to do we'll have to fix the grid anyway; we could cut our coal emissions by over a third by improving transmission and eliminating over-generation for resistance loss.
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
Are you referring to my last line, or the fact that if Labor keep raising taxes, then less people will work, and thus end up achieving less revenue.

I was referring to your use of the word "socialism", and your supremely arbitrary statements on the effects of taxation. Socialism is a distinct political, economic and social ideology that bares no resemblance to the generally post-Keynesian, third-way approach the Government seems to favor. Opposition is fine, and I'd hardly argue that this lot are doing a job worth lauding, but lets have worthwhile discussion. There are very good arguments to be had about the carbon tax/cap and trade system, and I think the flood levy was ridiculous, as the government should have borrowed the money (though those who propose a permanent AFF style fund for disaster relief have a point - it would be provided for by taxation, but wouldn't necessarily require a tax increase), rather than playing politics with the (largely irrelevant) date that the budget will return to surplus. I say we use them, and leave the pointless, untestable logical fallacies to the Tea Party.
 
C

chief

Guest
How much annually will be raised from the carbon tax? Anyone know?
 
C

chief

Guest
Chief, the issue is nobody knows yet! There surely must be some modelling from Treasury kicking around. somewhere.

Sorry I knew that answer, I was presuming under the 26 dollars a tonne. I know it won't be 26 dollars it will be far more with the Greens and the balance of power.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Seven I think you know very well that I am not talking about socialism in the full sense of the term, there are several parts to it and there is definitely a redistribution of the wealth at play here. Or do you think it is just about votes? It certainly isn't about doing what they believe is right we have seen that from the number of backflips that have occurred.

If I said 'socialism for the 21 st century' would that make you happy?
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Or maybe I should remind everyone of julias communist party past?


Sorry on my third week of working 7-10 and am getting a little cranky. Labor only makes me more cranky.
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
Seven I think you know very well that I am not talking about socialism in the full sense of the term, there are several parts to it and there is definitely a redistribution of the wealth at play here. Or do you think it is just about votes? It certainly isn't about doing what they believe is right we have seen that from the number of backflips that have occurred.

If I said 'socialism for the 21 st century' would that make you happy?

I disagree with that too. Social welfare levels haven't varied all that much since the early 80's (adjusted for inflation). Howard was actually the biggest spender adjusted for inflation, but that's as a result of a variety of middle class welfare initiatives, rather than poverty line welfare, where he largely continued the same level of support as before, except that the long term unemployed had increased mutual obligation requirements that included work for the dole, which both Rudd and Gillard have kept. On coming to power, Rudd, and then Gillard, have largely maintained the changes to medicare, kept a surprising number of the changes made by work choices, and kept the changes to income taxation. In practical terms, they are both (near as makes no difference) adherents to Market Liberalism, with the Labor party slightly closer to New Labor's third way approach, and the Liberals adopting a mix of liberalism and soft conservatism (with some hard, Regan-era social conservatism thrown in every so often).

These tiny examples of knob twiddling are not even slightly socialist. The use of the word "socialist" is a logical fallacy designed to reduce an argument to a manageable good verses evil scenario. Both right and left play these games, and neither is acceptable.
 

sevenpointdropgoal

Larry Dwyer (12)
Or maybe I should remind everyone of julias communist party past?


Sorry on my third week of working 7-10 and am getting a little cranky. Labor only makes me more cranky.

I don't think this is fair. Firstly she was in the Socialist Forum, not the Communists, and secondly a large number of student politicians of her era cut their teeth in student groups like this. She resigned from it and joined the Labor movement. I know many people who were involved in hard left movements as students and have changed their view. This cannot be used to extrapolate her current views and opinions.
 

Aussie D

Dick Tooth (41)
Didn't she resign from the Socialist Forum in 2002 when her political career was starting to kick on to being a leadership aspirant?
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I've heard she is still actually a member of the Socialist Forum, but just is under an alias on all of their mailing lists.
 
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