National Rugby Championship 2014

[Bowside]

Commercially this needs to be an attractive package, this will only be done through competitive matches, high levels of skill and entertaining rugby. That won't happen if 3 teams are distinctively superior to the rest. For entertainment purposes the best 150 players in the country need to start each weekend.

Player development, already mentioned but for the Rebels/Force the same players not getting game time during the super rugby season will be the same players not getting game time in the NRC, this is counterproductive to the aim of the competition which is player development. Once again, for the sake of overall player development in this country the best 150 players need to start each week..


People call the quota system or cap a pointless addition, well behold it happens in all sports yet since Australian rugby is broke rather then using the monetary system of a salary cap there will be a limit on professional players selected to ensure an equal distribution of playing talent across the country, to maximise player development, to create a package which appeals to sponsors/broadcasters and to create teams which fans will be willing to pay to watch.



Some have said there is merit in ensuring the Perth and Melbourne teams are of a higher calibre, I disagree adamantly, that's like suggesting their is merit to ensuring the Lions and GWS are the key to success for the AFL. the key to this competitions viability will be in the rugby heartlands, primarily Sydney and then Brisbane, the markets which represent the majority of rugby players and supporters need to be engaged. This won't be done if their teams are getting belted each week.

The QLD and NSW teams will catch up with the 3 expansion teams within 2 or 3 seasons, simply because QLD and NSW produce far far more players.

I'd even go as far as saying the brisbane team will be right up there in the first season.

 

[Slim 293]

The QLD and NSW teams will catch up with the 3 expansion teams within 2 or 3 seasons, simply because QLD and NSW produce far far more players.

I'd even go as far as saying the brisbane team will be right up there in the first season.

Indeed.......

The Sydney teams in particularly will get exclusive access to the best club players from the Shute Shield..........

It's not going to create equal competition to have similar numbers of Melbourne and Perth club players involved to that of their Sydney/Brisbane/Canberra counterparts.........

 

[Bowside]

I think the spread of players can happen organically without the need for quotas....

Will the ARU be forking out to cover the living expenses of those forced to play for a Sydney team in the NRC?

The fundamental problem with quotas is they add an artificial element to the competition. One of the main reasons the ARC failed was that fans and in many cases players had no affinity with the team.

This time around the teams are far more connected to the fan base. We've got established clubs, universities with hundreds of thousands in Alumni, neglected areas like Western Sydney and the nsw country looking to make a name for themselves etc.

The ARC was a competition for the sake of it. And if this NRC is going to survive there needs to be more than that. You need the ego's, the injustices, the dominance etc, because its that stuff that gives legitimacy to the contest in coming years.

So from that point of view I want to see sydney uni and randwick in the comp, purely so the rest of rugby community in sydney gets behind the other teams out of pure hate.

 

[Slim 293]

The fundamental problem with quotas is they add an artificial element to the competition. One of the main reasons the ARC failed was that fans and in many cases players had no affinity with the team.

Exactly.........

We've now got Shute Shield clubs coming together to form joint ventures.........

So the Brumbies, Force, and the Rebels can allow some players to return back to the teams they had club associations with so there is talent spread around without seeing artificial teams made up of a miss mash of players, some of whom might not be too happy about where they've wound up...........

The problem with the whole quota idea is that if I'm a South African import (or even a Queenslander) playing for the Force, and I'm not in their desired top 18, I'm not going to be happy to be told I have to go play for NSW Country or Greater Western Sydney.............

 

[Train Without a Station]

Exactly Slim. Any quotas or caps potentially create an additional cost which this competition is trying to avoid.

If a 3rd choice halfback chooses to return to Sydney in order to get game time and stays with friends or parents that's one thing. If a player with a family, mortgage, ties to the community is forced to, despite the fact he has the opportunity to play where he is that's a whole different thing.

 

[Slim 293]

And I don't think we should pretend that every team can and will have an evenly talented spread of players.........

Some teams will have better depth in positions..........

I used Stirzaker as an example on the previous page.........

He's a very good halfback but there's still the possibility he'll be on the bench for Melbourne or for Sydney Uni..........

And I'm not sure how he'd like having to play for a rival venture, and then he'd be taking the place of one or two other halfbacks associated with that team...........

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways, just thinking about the make up of teams.......

If you take away the players out due to Wallabies duties/heading overseas/perennially injured (I'll be generous here): Sio, Moore, Alexander, Murphy, Fardy, Pocock, Mowen, Auelua, White, To'omua, Lilo, Kuridrani, Speight, Tomane, Mogg, McCabe

You get a Canberra team looking something like this:

1. JP Smith
2. Siliva
3. R Smith
4. Whetton
5. Carter
6. Smiler
7. Butler
8. McCaffrey
9. Hoffman
10. Cronje
11. Van Der Walt
12. Tatekawa
13. A Smith
14. Rathbone
15. Coleman

16. Mann Rea
17. Ala'alatoa
18. Power
19.
20.
21. Dowsett
22.
23.

You've still got plenty of room for local JID players in a match day 23 plus more in the wider squad..........

Maybe a couple of those fringe guys head back to NSW and you spread the talent around while having a healthy number of local players involved...........

There's no need for enforced quotas.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The fundamental problem with quotas is they add an artificial element to the competition. One of the main reasons the ARC failed was that fans and in many cases players had no affinity with the team.

This time around the teams are far more connected to the fan base. We've got established clubs, universities with hundreds of thousands in Alumni, neglected areas like Western Sydney and the nsw country looking to make a name for themselves etc.

The ARC was a competition for the sake of it. And if this NRC is going to survive there needs to be more than that. You need the ego's, the injustices, the dominance etc, because its that stuff that gives legitimacy to the contest in coming years.

So from that point of view I want to see sydney uni and randwick in the comp, purely so the rest of rugby community in sydney gets behind the other teams out of pure hate.

That's one of the points I was trying to make to Dave Beat earlier.

 

[Dave Beat]

That's one of the points I was trying to make to Dave Beat earlier.

Shit if the ARU allow a "club" to stand alone so some one can hate them - what the fuck are we all talking about.

If that is one primary box that has to be ticked our code has bigger problems than I had thought.

I don't and wont hate Randwick because posters like @coach, @macca and others provide good fair content and in my eyes I think as a club they are doing good club things. But they should learn what J stands for in Joint Venture.

The 3T is about a "National" R C not a suburb entering because they have a brand that was strong when ANSETT was flying.

There we go - feel better now

 

[RugbyFuture]

they definitely need to learn the joint venture concept. Bids are due on friday (?) though and its not long now till we'll find out who's there and who's not and under which names. The fact we're all so virulently discussing all this says already that the passions will be present at every new club in the third tier, and that's the exciting thing about it!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Shit if the ARU allow a "club" to stand alone so some one can hate them - what the fuck are we all talking about.

If that is one primary box that has to be ticked our code has bigger problems than I had thought.

I don't and wont hate Randwick because posters like @coach, @macca and others provide good fair content and in my eyes I think as a club they are doing good club things. But they should learn what J stands for in Joint Venture.

The 3T is about a "National" R C not a suburb entering because they have a brand that was strong when ANSETT was flying.

There we go - feel better now

Hate is probably too strong a word.

I think some perspective needs to be taken here. Randwicks bid isa JV, just the model we all called for. They were just able to arrange one that will essentially allow them to maintain their branding. You have to appreciate the acumen displayed there.

It's the same for Uni partnering with Balmain in some respects. Both took the initiative and managed to work it out. There really wasn't any preventing other clubs from doing likewise.

 

[I like to watch]

Pfft,
If Randwick partnered in some way with UNSW is one of the best 10 alternatives,then the comp is fucked.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Anyways, just thinking about the make up of teams...

If you take away the players out due to Wallabies duties/heading overseas/perennially injured (I'll be generous here): Sio, Moore, Alexander, Murphy, Fardy, Pocock, Mowen, Auelua, White, To'omua, Lilo, Kuridrani, Speight, Tomane, Mogg, McCabe

You get a Canberra team looking something like this:

1. JP Smith
2. Siliva
3. R Smith
4. Whetton
5. Carter
6. Smiler
7. Butler
8. McCaffrey
9. Hoffman
10. Cronje
11. Van Der Walt
12. Tatekawa
13. A Smith
14. Rathbone
15. Coleman

16. Mann Rea
17. Ala'alatoa
18. Power
19.
20.
21. Dowsett
22.
23.

You've still got plenty of room for local JID players in a match day 23 plus more in the wider squad....

Maybe a couple of those fringe guys head back to NSW and you spread the talent around while having a healthy number of local players involved.....

There's no need for enforced quotas.

And doesn't that squad give a lot of fringe Super players a great chance to show their wares, eg, Smith twins, Siliva, Whetton (NZer but is eligible for Wallabies if good enough and so chooses), Smiler, Butler, van der Walt, Aalatoa, and isn't that precisely what the competition is about. Further, local JID players of the calibre of Hawke, Iona, Staniforth, Cree etc also get a chance to show what they're capable of at a higher level. In the scenario above, which I think is pretty well spot on, the ACT (Brumbies?) NRC team will finish up with about 8 or 9 regular Super starters or bench players. Would be a very competitive team but not one likely to overrun the Sydney or Brisbane outfits as seems to be the worry of a lot of posters here.

 

[Braveheart81]

^ yes, the situation certainly works for a Super Rugby team with plenty of Wallabies.

If you did the same thing at the Force or Rebels, their NRC team wouldn't be drastically different to their Super Rugby team if they got to keep all their players.

 

[Slim 293]

^ yes, the situation certainly works for a Super Rugby team with plenty of Wallabies.

If you did the same thing at the Force or Rebels, their NRC team wouldn't be drastically different to their Super Rugby team if they got to keep all their players.

With the quality of the Melbourne and Perth competitions at a lower standard you wouldn't want an equal number of players from those leagues involved in the competition than there are coming from Sydney, Brisbane or even Canberra..........

And I think we'll find that many of the club players coming out of Sydney and Brisbane will probably be just as good as many of the second string Super Rugby players floating around...........

Having said all that though, players from Rebels and Force should be given the choice to go back to their relevant Sydney venture so there are opportunities for these guys..........

But as outlined above, there are just too many negative factors involved in a quota system.........

 

[Dave Beat]

Hate is probably too strong a word.

I think some perspective needs to be taken here. Randwicks bid isa JV, just the model we all called for. They were just able to arrange one that will essentially allow them to maintain their branding. You have to appreciate the acumen displayed there.

It's the same for Uni partnering with Balmain in some respects. Both took the initiative and managed to work it out. There really wasn't any preventing other clubs from doing likewise.

Don't stress

 

[refugee]

Cant wait for the tender results. Should spark up this forum to white hot

 

[p.Tah]

Cant wait for the tender results. Should spark up this forum to white hot

Even if the perfect model was put forward some would argue vigorously against it.
Whatever eventuates, we have to just pick a team and support it.

 

[Dave Beat]

I thought I read 41 tenders?
Could there be a bolter?
I still think their should be a colts team as well.
I'd much rather travel and see 2 games than just one, but it would also ensure development.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I thought I read 41 tenders?
Could there be a bolter?
I still think their should be a colts team as well.
I'd much rather travel and see 2 games than just one, but it would also ensure development.

I certainly think they should look to introduce an U20s equivalent down the track. It would allow us to compete more with League for talent.