New Zealand Rugby Team Watch

[Dismal Pillock]

​

 

[NotMeSir]

Team for Quarter Final:
Beauden Barrett, Sevu Reece, Jack Goodhue, Anton Lienert-Brown, George Bridge, Richie Mo'unga, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read, Sam Cane, Ardie Savea, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.

Reserves: Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Angus Ta'avao, Scott Barrett, Matt Todd, TJ Perenara, Sonny Bill Williams, Jordie Barrett.

The fingers-crossed area is the ALB + Goodhue centre combination, as they only have a quarter of a test together (vs the Wallabies in Perth before Goodhue went off with a crocked hammie). Still, I back this team to play really well.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Hansen's Legacy

• Handed Sir Graham Henry's axe-murder-on-ice cold-blooded team of blue-headed back-to-back assassins.
• Buys a really, REALLY nice fucken house.
• Presides over New Zealand losing a rugby football test match for the first time ever to fucking Ireland.
• Does it again.
• Loses the fucking Lions series.
• Gets grumpy and arrogant with anyone who doubts him.
• Tries to go all mafia don and nepotise (don't look it up, it's a new word, like "baptise" but for nepotists) his fat little useless buddy Fozzie as his heir apparent even though everyone the length and breadth of fucking New Zealand can see Fozzie is basically just a failed soup rugby coach and a clueless homeless man's Wayne Smith.
• In RWC semi-final just says fuckit and biffs in all the Cantabs and Barrett's ("what a story! 3 brothers in 1 team!") and watches them all panic and shit the bed since none of them have gone backwards all season and go fullblown brain aneurysm in their tighty whities for all 80 minutes DESPITE the match being actually fairly close on the scoreboard the whole fucken time. Rieko Ioane and Ben Smith sit in the stands.

 

[molman]

Hansen's Legacy

• Handed Sir Graham Henry's axe-murder-on-ice cold-blooded team of blue-headed back-to-back assassins.
• Buys a really, REALLY nice fucken house.
• Presides over New Zealand losing a rugby football test match for the first time ever to fucking Ireland.
• Does it again.
• Loses the fucking Lions series.
• Gets grumpy and arrogant with anyone who doubts him.
• Tries to go all mafia don and nepotise (don't look it up, it's a new word, like "baptise" but for nepotists) his fat little useless buddy Fozzie as his heir apparent even though everyone the length and breadth of fucking New Zealand can see Fozzie is basically just a failed soup rugby coach and a clueless homeless man's Wayne Smith.
• In RWC semi-final just says fuckit and biffs in all the Cantabs and Barrett's ("what a story! 3 brothers in 1 team!") and watches them all panic and shit the bed since none of them have gone backwards all season and go fullblown brain aneurysm in their tighty whities for all 80 minutes DESPITE the match being actually fairly close on the scoreboard the whole fucken time. Rieko Ioane and Ben Smith sit in the stands.

So you think he did a pretty good job then?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

New Zealand Rugby Football War Crimes Tribunal

"Best of order, best of order, it is time for us to reconvene the New Zealand Rugby Football War Crimes Tribunal. It has indeed been a long hiatus between adjudications, for not since the devil's black year of 07 have we convened to mete out vicious penalties following an abject failure of the national rugby football team.

"We thank the following coaching staff indviduals for their tenure but the time has come for them to get the fuck out of Dodge.

"Steven Hansen. You should have fucked off in 2017 after you fucked up the Lions tour. You knew this was the original plan before your ego got the better of you. We thank you for the memories but now get the fuck out ok bye then.

"Ian Foster. NO, you cannot be the next AB coach just because you're a horrid suck-up, going so far as to talk like Steve, dress like Steve, even so committing to the role as to get goddamn fat like Steve. You too may get the fuck out right now and forever and ever amen ok bye now

"Scott Mcleod. What is your job even c**t? Nevermind, just fuck off.

"Foxy. Yes, you too. Clean broom. We are officially biffing the baby out with the bathwater. As well as the whole bathtub, the bathroom, the entire house and fuckit, the whole suburb as well.

"The next All Blacks head coach is obviously Jamie Joseph. Tony Brown and Razor Robertson are to be his assistants. Fozzie, would you please stop bloody crying. Please. It's unbecoming. And put down that sausage roll, for fucks sake. You are no longer tethered to the fat guts NZRFU gravy train. You have to pay for your own goddamn food now, welcome to planet earth.

"Righto. It has been decreed and so on and so forth, fuck off now all you fullaz, godspeed the vortex, etc, etc."

 

[zer0]

We've been deprived of a national pastime of bitterly squabbling over the next coaches for a while now, so feels good to get back into the trenches. In terms of the next coaching group, these seem to be the more realistic options that I can think of, though there's probably others I've missed. Do say so if I have.

Head coaches

• Cotter
• Gatland
• Joseph
• Rennie
• Robertson
• Schmidt

Forwards coaches

• Joseph
• Plumtree

Backs/attack coaches

• Brown
• Schmidt

Defence coaches

• Mitchell
• Plumtree

Set-piece coaches

• Coventry
• Feek
• Ryan

I'm not sure where exactly Boyd, Robertson, and Keane all specialise in.

HC's not listed elsewhere (e.g. Cotter, Gatland, and Rennie) are because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to work as anyone's assistant. Though each would, presumably, take over whatever area they specialise in if they were HC.

I've included guys like Gatland and Schmidt even though they're probably unlikely (as HC, anyway) due to contractual or personal commitments. I'm also not entirely sure whether other NH based coaches may also be tied up by contracts.

 

[zer0]

Personally I was a big fan of the Cotter/Schmidt combo for post-2011. If Cotter were still interested then I'd still like to give it a go, though Schmidt's circumstances make it a bit tricky. If he's only gone for 2020, then could just use a stopgap (maybe coax Wayne Smith out of retirement for a year?) until he returns. If not, then would have to overlook him for now, or have him as a consultant/analyst/whatever.

Another complication is Tony Brown. The guy may just be a shoe-in for any coaching group. Both he and Schmidt are attack coaches, and two doesn't go into one. Though if we could do a Belichick, and convert an attack coach (Schmidt) into a defence coach, then it could work. Would also rock some serious coaching IQ.

For set-piece coach, I've seen more of Coventry and Ryan than Feek so am probably biased towards them. Both Coventry and Ryan have produced good packs and scrums, though Coventry has the greater experience so may lean towards him, even if it f*cks the Blues. Though would have no complaints with Ryan.

So a coaching setup that either looks like.....

Cotter, HC & forwards
Schmidt, backs/attack coach
Plumtree, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Or.....

Cotter, HC & forwards
Brown, backs/attack coach
Schmidt, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Much like 2011, it's probably an unlikely outcome, but there we go.

 

[zer0]

Two other thoughts on potential coaches:

Robertson is too inexperienced for a HC. His only experience beyond the Canterbury and Crusaders bubble is with the U20's, which inherently has a tumultuous nature. He'll need to go amass some international/NH experience first. Indeed, he lacks the test HC experience that NZR requires. Or, at least what they required when they declined Cotter in 2011.

While he's done great work with England, Mitchell still seems to be his same old abrasive self. May best be used as Eddie has used him; in a short intense burst.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Gatlands out, Schmidt out, to me that really just leaves JJ vs Razor. And as you say Razor hasnt done it beyond the bubble. Seems he's at where JJ was in 2015 when he won with the Landers.

 

[Dan54]

Personally I was a big fan of the Cotter/Schmidt combo for post-2011. If Cotter were still interested then I'd still like to give it a go, though Schmidt's circumstances make it a bit tricky. If he's only gone for 2020, then could just use a stopgap (maybe coax Wayne Smith out of retirement for a year?) until he returns. If not, then would have to overlook him for now, or have him as a consultant/analyst/whatever.

Another complication is Tony Brown. The guy may just be a shoe-in for any coaching group. Both he and Schmidt are attack coaches, and two doesn't go into one. Though if we could do a Belichick, and convert an attack coach (Schmidt) into a defence coach, then it could work. Would also rock some serious coaching IQ.

For set-piece coach, I've seen more of Coventry and Ryan than Feek so am probably biased towards them. Both Coventry and Ryan have produced good packs and scrums, though Coventry has the greater experience so may lean towards him, even if it f*cks the Blues. Though would have no complaints with Ryan.

So a coaching setup that either looks like...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Schmidt, backs/attack coach
Plumtree, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Or...

Cotter, HC & forwards
Brown, backs/attack coach
Schmidt, defence coach
Coventry/Ryan, set-piece coach

Much like 2011, it's probably an unlikely outcome, but there we go.

Like that you got options and alternatives zer0, I not sure who I go for, I haven't seen enough of Cotter's work to go crazy over him, but he maybe bloody good, Schmit is out as is Gatland as DP says, so I really think Foster will somehow get the job, that also doesn't worry me too much, a lot would depend on his team he takes in with him. I would be very keen to see Tony Brown in the mix with whoever gets the job, I actually wonder if Plumtree might be a good forward's coach, he did it for Ireland. see I still not sure how much of a shake up they need after losing a semifinal in WC, but pretty relaxed if the ones who know decide that is what is needed. Not really sure I'm convinced about Coventry or Ryan , but only because I not sure I seen a lot to make me see otherwise, but they could be good choices. I like you can't really see Razor being quite experienced enough, and JJ is out as extended Japanese contract a while back.

 

[Dan54]

We've been deprived of a national pastime of bitterly squabbling over the next coaches for a while now, so feels good to get back into the trenches. In terms of the next coaching group, these seem to be the more realistic options that I can think of, though there's probably others I've missed. Do say so if I have.

Head coaches

• Cotter
• Gatland
• Joseph
• Rennie
• Robertson
• Schmidt
• Foster

Forwards coaches

• Joseph
• Plumtree

Backs/attack coaches

• Brown
• Schmidt

Defence coaches

• Mitchell
• Plumtree
• McCleod

Set-piece coaches

• Coventry
• Feek
• Ryan

I'm not sure where exactly Boyd, Robertson, and Keane all specialise in.


HC's not listed elsewhere (e.g. Cotter, Gatland, and Rennie) are because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to work as anyone's assistant. Though each would, presumably, take over whatever area they specialise in if they were HC.

I've included guys like Gatland and Schmidt even though they're probably unlikely (as HC, anyway) due to contractual or personal commitments. I'm also not entirely sure whether other NH based coaches may also be tied up by contracts.

Just added a Foster and McCleod as whether we think they should or shouldn't get gig, they will be in the picture I suspect.

 

[Dctarget]

I was listening to a podcast that had a NZ journo on it and she was asked about if any of the current players will be moved on or what they'll do after being handily beaten by England. I was surprised by her confidence in the team. Essentially keep on the same track, same players. She said that 14/15 of the starting players have re-signed.

Like, NZ will still be an amazing team, but they were soundly spanked by an English team that is only going to get better (very young team). Are NZ content to be no. 2 in the world? I would've thought that there would've been a bit more of a clean out of the players, moving some along.

 

[Viking]

What's the story with Damian McKenzie?

I'd say they have a very different attacking threat with 10. Barrett 15. Mckenzie.

They have not nailed down a great 12 yet either- so whoever is in that position will likely develop and continue to improve.

Bit of a worry with the forwards getting outplayed so convincingly though. But they should nail down a solid 6 over the next few years, and have good lock prospects. Savea and Cane will continue to be threats.

I think they have every chance of re-gaining number 1 status. But certainly looking forward to the future battles with the young and confident English team.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I was listening to a podcast that had a NZ journo on it and she was asked about if any of the current players will be moved on or what they'll do after being handily beaten by England. I was surprised by her confidence in the team. Essentially keep on the same track, same players. She said that 14/15 of the starting players have re-signed.

Like, NZ will still be an amazing team, but they were soundly spanked by an English team that is only going to get better (very young team). Are NZ content to be no. 2 in the world? I would've thought that there would've been a bit more of a clean out of the players, moving some along.

Posted in April:

EDIT: more relevant to your first para than your second.

ASmith has re-signed for two more years which gives us a pretty handy group of core players heading into the next RWC cycle:

Contracted through to end of 2022
George Bridge
Dalton Papalii
​Joe Moody
Rieko Ioane

2021
Dane Coles
Codie Taylor
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Karl Tu'inukuafe
​Sam Cane
Aaron Smith
TJ Perenara
​David Havili
Ardie Savea
Ngani Laumape
​Damian McKenzie
Akira Ioane

2020
Scott Barrett
Nepo Laulala
Patrick Tuipolotu
Sam Whitelock (one-year contract option)
Vaea Fifita
Anton Lienert-Brown
Mitchell Drummond

But still a large & in some cases worrying group coming off-contract post-RWC:

Brodie Retallick
Jack Goodhue
Beauden Barrett
Ryan Crotty
Jordie Barrett
Richie Mo'unga
Sonny Bill Williams
Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi
Liam Coltman
Nathan Harris
Kane Hames
Shannon Frizell
Waisake Naholo
Matt Todd
Israel Dagg
Luke Romano

Many of whom will join the ranks of those who've already confirmed they're leaving:

Kieran Read (Toyota Verblitz, Japan)
Owen Franks (Northampton)
Ben Smith (Pau)
Liam Squire (Red Hurricanes, Japan)
Jordan Taufua (Leicester)
Jackson Hemopo (DynaBoars, Japan)
Luke Whitelock (Pau)
Nehe Milner-Skudder (Toulon)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ck-as-battle-for-players-beyond-2019-heats-up

EDIT: Acording to CGW Crotty has just signed for Kubota. I'm mindful of the date so I'll wait until I see something more definitive.

RE-EDIT: this looks fairly definitive:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...ty-to-leave-new-zealand-after-rugby-world-cup

Several of the 16 who hadn't re-signed at that time have now done so:

Retallick
Goodhue
BBarrett
JBarrett
Mo'unga
TTT

Possibly one or two others I've missed but that's still a low churn % compared to previous RWC years.

 

[Dan54]

I was listening to a podcast that had a NZ journo on it and she was asked about if any of the current players will be moved on or what they'll do after being handily beaten by England. I was surprised by her confidence in the team. Essentially keep on the same track, same players. She said that 14/15 of the starting players have re-signed.

Like, NZ will still be an amazing team, but they were soundly spanked by an English team that is only going to get better (very young team). Are NZ content to be no. 2 in the world? I would've thought that there would've been a bit more of a clean out of the players, moving some along.

Geez I know they were pretty well beaten, but I don't think any semi intelligent coach would make extreme changes , there will be enough changes with the ones that are retiring I think it more a matter of tweeking game plan when playing Poms next time which is probably not for a few years.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ just over one year as it happens: 7 November 2020.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...est-announced-for-twickenham-in-november-2020

Like you I don't see a 1992-style cleanout even if Foster doesn't get the coaching gig (which I still think he will).

 

[zer0]

Stuff understands that Foster's bid to become the next All Blacks head coach contains a heavyweight support crew which he is hoping will be enough to tip a now tight and intriguing contest his way.

.....

But sources indicate that a "rock star" of the game has already been lined up as a key part of Foster's coaching team that he will pitch to New Zealand Rugby's appointments committee when the job officially opens up.

One New Zealand Rugby board member in the loop is said to have been very excited by the level of support Foster has assembled, while another source indicated it was an "impressive" group.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-foster-formed-dream-team-for-tilt-at-top-job

No quotes from Foster so basically just speculation. Nevertheless, I'm curious to see who this "heavyweight support crew" is.

EDIT: Part of me is wondering if this going to be a full on Blues-level situation where his heavyweight support crew is unmasked -- Scooby-Doo style -- to be John Kirwan, Tasesa Lavea and Mark Hammett.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Rockstar. John Toogood.

 

[TSR]

Congrats to Hansen on the completion of his All Blacks coaching career. Say what you like about him (and plenty - including me at times - do) but he has been fantastically successful, even if he isn’t going out in the fashion he hoped. He is somewhat of the master protagonist and plays his role of pantomime villain well - which I think adds tremendously to the international game. But he is always quite gracious in victory and respectful in defeat as well.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

a full on Blues-level situation where his heavyweight support crew is unmasked -- Scooby-Doo style -- to be John Kirwan, Tasesa Lavea and Mark Hammett.