New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[KOB1987]

Someone had to start it!

 

[The torpedo]

Oh god
pls help
ABs by 50+

 

[KOB1987]

Nah, we'll put up a better fight than the Boks. I can't see us winning it this time but I reckon we are the only team in the world that can beat them if things happen to go our way.

I'd say ABs by about 15.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The ABs exploit weakness better than anyone and we still have one glaring weakness which will mean we lose.

Other teams in TRC haven't been good enough to exploit it.

We have 4 players in the backs that we need to hide, and there's only three spots where you can do it.

So whichever of Foley, QC (Quade Cooper), DHP and Izzy play in the front line, that's where we we lose the game.

 

[zer0]

Nah, we'll put up a better fight than the Boks. I can't see us winning it this time but I reckon we are the only team in the world that can beat them if things happen to go our way.

I'd say ABs by about 15.

Not with your pack. I'd say England would have the best chance, were we playing them this year. Just a shame that we aren't.

 

[KOB1987]

Not with your pack. I'd say England would have the best chance, were we playing them this year. Just a shame that we aren't.

Which is why Eddie is throwing lots of cheap shots at you, because you can't prove him wrong until 2018.

You are probably right but we'll get a better idea where England are at after the November tours when the rest of the RC contenders play them. We outscored them in terms of tries in 2 out of 3 games and we're hopeless apparently.

 

[Scoey]

Not with your pack. I'd say England would have the best chance, were we playing them this year. Just a shame that we aren't.

Yeah we could. No doubt your lot are they best team at the moment and you're on top of your game (that's enough pissing in your pocket), but in terms of pure ability, I don't think the gulf is as wide as it seems. We've been playing pretty poorly but there's no doubt we can play a shit ton better.

When it comes to Wallabies playing NZ I believe it's mostly lost between our ears.

 

[KOB1987]

The ABs exploit weakness better than anyone and we still have one glaring weakness which will mean we lose.

Other teams in TRC haven't been good enough to exploit it.

We have 4 players in the backs that we need to hide, and there's only three spots where you can do it.

So whichever of Foley, QC (Quade Cooper), DHP and Izzy play in the front line, that's where we we lose the game.

I actually wonder if we'll beef it up a bit for this game. e.g. Kerevi to 12, TK to 13, Speight on the wing. I know that's a lot of changes but we don't know what MC has been working on behind the scenes.

Since when has Izzy been a weakness defensively?

 

[dru]

Another night of pain?

Will Cheika stick with Arnold over Simmons? I suspect most other positions, bar injury, are inked in.

Improbable not impossible.

 

[Gnostic]

The Wallabies have absolutely no hope at all of winning or even keeping the margin respectable in this game. It will be their best game of the year if it can even be said they looked like they could have been "in" the game.

The team remains totally unbalanced with very little in the way of any concerted attack pattern. As with the Brumbies the longer Larkham has had an influence on the attack of the Wallabies the worse it has got. The loss of some players hasn't helped, or maybe it has, we don't know because with To'omua at the Brumbies they were just as shit in attack. Before the Brumby fans jump in on that, winning the Australian conference this year was really nothing to be proud of, it was by far the worst Super season I have ever seen in terms of quality from the Australian sides. I wouldn't think they could get worse, I saw regional club sides play with less errors and more cohesion.

Against Argentina I like the urgency in defence, but there were still a lot of glaring holes in defence after a single offload was made. Against the ABs that will be 50+ points at Eden Park and Timmy Horan and John Eales will have to trot out all of their clichéd excuses of "its a young team and stick with them and we have to have patience....." yadda yadda yadda.

The team I would like to see against the ABs (but I most certainly won't) is:-
1. Sio
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Arnold
5. Coleman
6. Mumm
7. Hooper (C or VC)
8. Timani/Houston
9. Genia (VC - or C)
10. Cooper (just so the bogan NZ supporters have something to boo at) or Foley I don't care
12. Kerevi
13. Folau
11. Naivolo
14. Hodge
15. DHP

16. TPN (if fit) or Hanson. Must be used earlier.
17. Ala'alatoa
18. Robertson
19. Douglas
20. Houston/Timani
21. Phipps
22. Foley/Cooper whoever doesn't start
23. Kurindrani

Same squad, same players as oicked last week, just covering the skill sets for the positions better.

I have continued to read the derision of Mumm. Up until he went to the UK I was not a fan at all. In fact I rated him about the same as Richard Brown and McCalman which is to say not at all. However on his return he stepped up his game hugely and whilst he stepped back again somewhat this year he is still showing more than Fardy IMO. The Lineout has been far better with Mumm on the field in the latter part of the RC and Mumm's work rate and EFEECTIVENESS in the defensive maul hasn't been matched ion the Wallabies in recent times by anybody outside of Ben Mowen and Wil Skelton. On the weekend Mumm worked his way through the centre of the Argie maul inside the 5 metre line and thereby stopped a certain try. If it was an isolated example I'd say it was lucky but he did what Mowen used to have the knack of doing and getting through somehow (Skelton's technique is just brute strength and reach).

For me the penalty against Fardy for going off his feet at his first ruck involvement on the weekend shjows where his game is at, at the moment and why for me he wouldn't make the cut even for the bench.

As for Phipps, he should be told to play the game and bring his energy but leave his mouth and niggle at home or else a different reserve WILL be found, that was stupid in the extreme.

On the front row reserves, I was impressed with the young blokes against the Argies when they came on, even with a tired Moore (who is no where near the best scrummaging Hooker in Oz). Certainly enough to persevere with as Slipper has struggled to find form all year after his injuries.

No changes to the second row as for the first time this year the Wallabies actually managed to compete effectively on opposition ball. Stick with it.

The other reasons for positional changes etc are the same as I have been posting all year so there's no need to repeat.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Yeah we could. No doubt your lot are they best team at the moment and you're on top of your game (that's enough pissing in your pocket), but in terms of pure ability, I don't the the gulf is as wide as it seems. We've been playing pretty poorly but there's no doubt we can play a shit ton better.

When it comes to Wallabies playing NZ I believe it's mostly lost between our ears.

What do you mean by pure ability? Is that individual ability or team ability?

 

[KOB1987]

Not with your pack. I'd say England would have the best chance, were we playing them this year. Just a shame that we aren't.

Just as a point of interest - excluding the injury to Pocock, and Horwill, all the personnel from the starting pack which won the game in Sydney last year are in the squad. In fact they are all in the 23.

 

[Scoey]

What do you mean by pure ability? Is that individual ability or team ability?

Individual. Our ability as a team is pants at the moment but we have some very good players. Certainly yours are generally better but I don't think the gap is insurmountable.

 

[The torpedo]

As for Phipps, he should be told to play the game and bring his energy but leave his mouth and niggle at home or else a different reserve WILL be found, that was stupid in the extreme.

He's a scrumhalf.
His sole purpose is to be annoying.
A teammate of mine when I played rugby once described scrumhalves a "a mouth on a stick".

 

[galumay]

Well I guess we get some chance to really see if there has been any measurable or meaningful improvement in the Wallabies since the start of the RC.

Given that its at Eden Park, the AB's going for the world record run of wins for Tier 1 teams, and the Wobblies have just flown to the UK and back, I suspect it will be a whitewash.

Realistic target is probably to get flogged by less than 40 points and score at least a couple of tries.

If they can stay within 20 points and get a few scores then real progress has been made.

 

[RedsHappy]

I consider a glimmer of a major positive I had long hoped for is that players are starting to openly credit the inputs and impact of M Byrne on their skills and/or confidence. This is precisely what should be happening as the Wallaby coaching group is enhanced.

This today from Kerevi (www.rugby.com.au):

After what was arguably his most polished performance at Test level, Kerevi discussed the influence the pair (Byrne and Larkham) was having on fine-tuning his backline play.​

​

"Bernie's just made things a bit easier for me in the backline, basically just telling me to run hard," Kerevi said.​

​

"Mick's been working on our skills, that speed of ball and transferring the ball into space - that's something I'm trying to add into my game."​

​

[As someone whom like Gnostic above thinks Larkham is a case of a nostalgia-driven, wild over-promotion at Wallaby coaching level (and just as likely at Super level), I rather like the contrast from Kerevi with Larkham's advice being a statement of the bleeding fucking obvious - 'just telling me to run hard' whilst Byrne was seemingly imparting exactly the kinds of skills inputs many of us here have perceived the Wallabies as in serious short supply of - 'that speed of ball and transferring the ball into space'.]

Sio was last week crediting Byrne wrt to his close-in passing skills upgrade.

Next we need to see Larkham go back to a much lower-risk/lower-profile place for his personal development as a rugby coach and in parallel have Cheika recruit a top-quality forwards and line-out coach (which, is it not obvious, we badly need). Meanwhile you can be sure Larkham and Byrne will get in each other's way and there will be inevitable diffusion of messaging and emphasis within the team.

Once that happens we will start to have a chance at unseating England more consistently and being at least competitive vs the ABs.

Right now we are a team with inadequate skills depth (vs inadequate player depth) and a compromised and incomplete national coaching team that is dealing with that chronic problem too slowly (or not at all in some cases).

​

 

[The torpedo]

​

"Bernie's just made things a bit easier for me in the backline, basically just telling me to run hard," Kerevi said.​

​

​

​

[As someone whom like Gnostic above thinks Larkham is a case of a nostalgia-driven, wild over-promotion at Wallaby coaching level (and just as likely at Super level), I rather like the contrast from Kerevi with Larkham's advice being a statement of the bleeding fucking obvious - 'just telling me to run hard' whilst Byrne was seemingly imparting exactly the kinds of skills inputs many of us here have perceived the Wallabies as in serious short supply of - 'that speed of ball and transferring the ball into space'.]

have Cheika recruit a top-quality forwards and line-out coach (which, is it not obvious, we badly need).

Meanwhile you can be sure Larkham and Byrne will get in each other's way


Right now we are a team with inadequate skills depth

​

Point 1: So Bernie's job is to tell the players to run hard?

I'd better send my resume in - that's gotta be the easiest job in the world!!!

Point 2: This man could be the solution:

Point 3: Honestly, that is bullshit. You seriously reckon that there is friction between Bernie and Mick? That would see one of them gone by now

Point 4: Hopefully our skills will grow with time that Mick Byrne is part of the coaching setup

 

[RedsHappy]

Just btw re the above and Fisher etc.

It was something of a tragedy, the M Foley end-game, sacking from the Force and all that. He was not an HC and should never have risen quite that far.

In 2008 - when he was Wallaby forwards coach and before the fall-out with Deans - he was widely recognised to be one of the best elite forwards and scrum coaches anywhere.

 

[amirite]

Just btw re the above and Fisher etc.

It was something of a tragedy, the M Foley end-game, sacking from the Force and all that. He was not an HC and should never have risen quite that far.

In 2008 - when he was Wallaby forwards coach and before the fall-out with Deans - he was widely recognised to be one of the best elite forwards and scrum coaches anywhere.

Those unit units coaches are a special breed, you've got to love picking a certain part of the game to pieces. It takes a special guy.

HCs are a different - leaders, delegators, and big picture people.

 

[Gnostic]

He's a scrumhalf.

His sole purpose is to be annoying.

A teammate of mine when I played rugby once described scrumhalves a "a mouth on a stick".

The game has moved on really and referees are taking less and less of the mouth to them or even other players. In any event people who run off their mouth do have a tendency to run off elsewhere as words often lead to action. So if the words are firing up often ill thought actions follow, like pushing a team official.