NSW GPS expansion

[T.Rugby]

Hi all,

Seeing as though there is a topic on CAS expansion, i thought i would try and see what people thought of an expanded GPS system. what are people's thoughts on this? as an ex-knox boy I had always hoped that knox and perhaps barker would be accepted into the GPS...seeing as though they seem to be the only schools which can truly compete in most academic/co-curricular activities plus attract a decent crowd for home and away rugby games...

talking to some of my mates that attended gps schools say it will never happen...which leaves me dumbfounded... as these two schools would definetly add an overall greater addition to the GPS than high or grammar.

what do people think of this?

 

[TerryTate]

Highly unlikely that traditions which have been in place for well over a hundred years are going to change now considering most of the schools who formed the CAS were initially rejected by the GPS all those years ago. I also highly doubt that schools like Barker, Knox and Waverely would want to risk losing potential awards and premierships for the purpose of obtaining mediocrity in a GPS competition which has already proven how scarce premierships can come by for some schools i.e. Newington. Do not presume that a move to the GPS would bring with it greener pastures in the eyes of the decision makers from any of these schools.
Although in the eyes of the Rugby fan the theory is great... in practice it wouldn't succeed.
GPS also has rowing.. these CAS schools do not.

 

[cyclopath]

Hi all,

Seeing as though there is a topic on CAS expansion, i thought i would try and see what people thought of an expanded GPS system. what are people's thoughts on this? as an ex-knox boy I had always hoped that knox and perhaps barker would be accepted into the GPS...seeing as though they seem to be the only schools which can truly compete in most academic/co-curricular activities plus attract a decent crowd for home and away rugby games...

talking to some of my mates that attended gps schools say it will never happen...which leaves me dumbfounded... as these two schools would definetly add an overall greater addition to the GPS than high or grammar.

what do people think of this?

As much as I tend to avoid these threads, I couldn't resist. You mention academia and co-curricular activities, and rugby games then proceed to be extremely condescending to 2 long-term schools of the GPS. Is the GPS all about 1 sport? If you use the criteria laid out in your post, it would seem both those schools, and in particular Grammar would have plenty to "offer". Historically I think you'll find Grammar won plenty of premierships in all sports. Maybe not so many lately, but so what? There is more to school than who gets the biggest home and away rugby crowds, I would think.
Arrogant nonsense, not least of all as you are placing 2 of the CAS above all the others too.
That's what I think. You did ask.

 

[qwerty51]

And don't knock Grammar and High. They aren't rugby schools but they're both generally quite good at cricket, soccer and basketball.

Rowing is a big thing too.

 

[I like to watch]

Hi all,

Seeing as though there is a topic on CAS expansion, i thought i would try and see what people thought of an expanded GPS system. what are people's thoughts on this? as an ex-knox boy I had always hoped that knox and perhaps barker would be accepted into the GPS...seeing as though they seem to be the only schools which can truly compete in most academic/co-curricular activities plus attract a decent crowd for home and away rugby games...

talking to some of my mates that attended gps schools say it will never happen...which leaves me dumbfounded... as these two schools would definetly add an overall greater addition to the GPS than high or grammar.

what do people think of this?

I think all Knox old boys are jealous of the "prestige" of the GPS Schools.
EVERY SINGLE KNOX OLD BOY I HAVE EVER MET,WANTS KNOX TO BE ACCEPTED INTO THE GPS SYSTEM.
What did they do to you guys when you were there?
You all have a chip on your shoulder, that you really are GPS material.....
Why do you all want to be measured on where you spent 6 years of your schooling, instead of what you have accomplished in the 10 ,20 or 30 years since you left?

 

[Burke's Boot]

Seeing SHS doesn't play the most popular GPS sport anymore, rugby, i wouldn't have a problem with a school that has provided plenty of Wallabies like Knox joining in. Then again the good GPS name could be lowered by bringing in a school that has been absolutely tarnished by kiddie fiddling teachers recently.

 

[cyclopath]

Why do you all want to be measured on where you spent 6 years of your schooling, instead of what you have accomplished in the 10 ,20 or 30 years since you left?

You HAVE read some of the threads on this forum before, I take it?

 

[T.Rugby]

You mention academia and co-curricular activities, and rugby games then proceed to be extremely condescending to 2 long-term schools of the GPS. Is the GPS all about 1 sport? If you use the criteria laid out in your post, it would seem both those schools, and in particular Grammar would have plenty to "offer". Historically I think you'll find Grammar won plenty of premierships in all sports.

fare enough grammar has won quite a few with rowing but not so much high..

http://www.aagps.nsw.edu.au/about/resultshistory.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_the_River_(New_South_Wales)

please excuse me if i did sound arrogant (generally what people think of people that went to knox i suppose) as i did not mean to... look i was basing my enquiry on the fact that during my time there were only 3 cas schools that truly compete in the competition knox barker and waverly...

now since the 1980's based on what i looked up... i presumed that in the co-curricular field knox and barker could possibly add better overall competition than high and grammar. they would be able to field more teams in sports than high and grammar....which could potentially lift the competition in athletics, swimming, cricket, rugby, shooting, soccer and basketball (i have heard that high and grammar are very good at bball so i will grant you that).

 

[T.Rugby]

I think all Knox old boys are jealous of the "prestige" of the GPS Schools.
EVERY SINGLE KNOX OLD BOY I HAVE EVER MET,WANTS KNOX TO BE ACCEPTED INTO THE GPS SYSTEM.
What did they do to you guys when you were there?
You all have a chip on your shoulder, that you really are GPS material.....
Why do you all want to be measured on where you spent 6 years of your schooling, instead of what you have accomplished in the 10 ,20 or 30 years since you left?

i think you will find that, you are seriously generalizing knox old boys....

but to answer your statement, you will find that some of the old boys from waverly, knox and barker generally do wish there was greater competition with regards to sports in the cas...thus my question of whether they would ever be included in the gps.

 

[T.Rugby]

And don't knock Grammar and High. They aren't rugby schools but they're both generally quite good at cricket, soccer and basketball.

Rowing is a big thing too.

sorry mate, i understand that...but i just would think based on both competitions high and grammar would be possibly more evenly matched in the cas with cranbrook, trinity and st aloysius. but i understand that none of the cas schools excluding cranbrook offer rowing.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Plus the CAS is better at Swimming and academia than the GPS...

i would speculate that even though our cadet forces are smaller too, that our Military Skilss comp, Field Comps and dress and display comps are more prestigious and skilled.

 

[Nusadan]

GPS also has rowing.. these CAS schools do not.

Cranbook has a reasonable rowing program I believe...

 

[Spewn]

sorry mate, i understand that...but i just would think based on both competitions high and grammar would be possibly more evenly matched in the cas with cranbrook, trinity and st aloysius. but i understand that none of the cas schools excluding cranbrook offer rowing.

Grammar already plays them in trials. Ask any Grammar boy that plays rugby and they would still want to play the other GPS schools. No matter what the results. They do have good players just not the depth. It will be a sad day for rugby in this country when the gps excludes such a school.

 

[T.Rugby]

Grammar already plays them in trials. Ask any Grammar boy that plays rugby and they would still want to play the other GPS schools. No matter what the results. They do have good players just not the depth. It will be a sad day for rugby in this country when the gps excludes such a school.

yeh i definetly understand where you are coming from... hands down the gps in nsw is the premier comp for schoolboy rugby because of schools like kings joeys newington and view. i suppose this answers why alot of old knox boys who are rugby mad want knox to join the gps....

 

[Elfster]

Things change. Once upon a time, GPS was undoubtedly the premier Rugby competition and system, and it still is. However, the difference is not quite as strong these days. And, the CAS Rugby competition has evolved into a vibrant thing recently with a home and away. The GPS has evolved into something where the Armidale School is no longer considered, High only plays Grammar, Grammar is often mentioned with a condescending arrogance (though they are now picking up in strength, fortunately) and discussion about Newington's victory this year brings up questions of sporting "scholarships" and "bought" premierships.

There are various competitions or School groupings or associations in Sydney. Let them thrive and develop. There is history and tradition in all of them. Let that be I think.

Also: "Then again the good GPS name could be lowered by bringing in a school that has been absolutely tarnished by kiddie fiddling teachers recently." is a bit Sportal Forum type of stuff and also with current legal cases/ action in play, arguably a little inappropriate at this time.

 

[TerryTate]

Cranbook has a reasonable rowing program I believe...

True true. I was referring to the schools in question though Barker and Knox.

 

[Lindommer]

The chances of Knox, Barker or Waverley or whomever being admitted into the GPS are about the same as the CAS letting St Pat's in. It's possible to mount a coherent argument for a results-based joint rugby competition with, say, two divisions but the Athletic Association of the Great Public Schools of New South Wales WILL not alter its numbers in any way. The reaction to High's decision to withdraw from full involvement in rugby is a searching insight into their views on membership of the GPS: they are part of us, there is no question of them being excluded. But many years prior to this incident The Armidale School was admitted in 1897 and has always been treated as a full member, although it hasn't competed in the rugby competition since 1966. TAS offers rowing but doesn't take part in the GPS Head of the River. Some of the other GPS schools play a pre-season trial match against TAS to emphasise their GPS membership.

 

[Rothschild]

In Queensland we have similar situation where Downlands College has for years been trying for admittance to the GPS>
As Lindo mentioned, it is more than rugby.
The GPS membership is based on a very broad yet strict and definable standards of sport, academia, cultural and pastoral education.
There is no way Downlands will be admitted they just do not in any sense of measure do the things that GPS requires. In a similar yet opposite fashion, Ipswich is running close to expulsion as their standards in a number of areas have slipped dramatically yet sportswise they are competitive to an above average degree.
In short, you can crave the amalgamation of rugby as long as you want but admittance to the GPS fold is even more exclusive than having been a student at one and that is a big reason why the old school tie is so important - rightly or wrongly it is a system that is proudly and vehnemently protected.

 

[The Chosen]

The chances of Knox, Barker or Waverley or whomever being admitted into the GPS are about the same as the CAS letting St Pat's in. It's possible to mount a coherent argument for a results-based joint rugby competition with, say, two divisions but the Athletic Association of the Great Public Schools of New South Wales WILL not alter its numbers in any way. The reaction to High's decision to withdraw from full involvement in rugby is a searching insight into their views on membership of the GPS: they are part of us, there is no question of them being excluded. But many years prior to this incident The Armidale School was admitted in 1897 and has always been treated as a full member, although it hasn't competed in the rugby competition since 1966. TAS offers rowing but doesn't take part in the GPS Head of the River. Some of the other GPS schools play a pre-season trial match against TAS to emphasise their GPS membership.

As a father of a Knox Old Boy my understanding is that whereas Knox would have liked to see a promotion/relegation joint GPS/CAS Rugby competition they had no wish to be part of the actual GPS system. e.g. rowing would be a problem & logistically a major cost in both finance & time. `The more sports you introduce- the weaker you become across the board'. THe joint Rugby competition was seriously considered several years ago but a couple of the GPS Schools held out(against the majority) and so CAS procceded to the 2 round Home & Again competition.

When looking at the history of the AAGPS I note that included in the original members were:
* All Saints College,Bathurst
*Cooerwull Academy(School dissolved during WW1)
* St.Patricks, Goulburn
* St.Stanislaus College, Bathurst

Is anyone able to tell me how/when these Schools were `exited from the AAGPS?

 

[Lindommer]

Those four schools attended the meetings from which the GPS was founded; I wouldn't've used the expression "exited from the GPS", or "former member schools", if I'd penned that article in Wikipedia. It's pertinent to note those four are all out of Sydney, maybe the prospect of competing against Sydney schools with the poor transport at the time proved to be too daunting. Which raises the question why The Armidale School was admitted in 1897.

Looking back at our early history it's nice to note how the different religious demoninations got on so well in the formation of Australian society. There was a subtle understanding the Church of England was first among equals but there was certainly no supression of other faiths' religious observance. Much earlier on Lachlan Macquarie made a point of encouraging the major European faith, Catholicism, in its quest to build a proper cathedral. And during the founding of the University of Sydney and the establishment of Rookwood Cemetery in the 1850s and 60s the major religions were afforded equal opportunity and space to establish colleges and burial sections respectively. From my understanding of Australian history the Catholic/Protestant divide arose during and after the First World War when an Irish clergyman posted to Melbourne, Daniel Mannix, stirred up anti-British feelings during the conscription referendums; no doubt his antipathy towards Britain reflected those of his Irish countrymen.