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NSW Schools Debating 2018

Discussion in 'Everything Else' started by Shortrep, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    Thread for different Sydney/NSW schools debating competitions. Feel free to share news, opinions and predictions for the 2018 Schools debating season in NSW.
    Primarily dealing with the premier competitions of ISDA, Archdale, GPS, CAS and Premiers Debating challenge as well as their respective representative teams and state team.

    Term 1:
    ISDA (Independent Schools Debating Association)
    The premier term 1 private school competition. On paper it is an A grade competition, in reality its more combined A/B grade. 32 schools divided into 4 pools. Each pool competes in a round robin over 7 debates. top 4 schools in each pool break to Octo finals. Some of the top teams enter into this competition but it also features schools that dont or have limited/no coaching programs and get stomped each round and probably dont benefit much being in it. The competition also has a waiting list involving some big name debating schools that would probably be better off in the comp instead but wont be able to join anytime soon due to imo, the politics of the association. People like to use it to predict Archdale/CAS/GPS debates but the problem is that with 16 venues with each friday night the adj pool quality is wildly variable at best. Some days teams draw some top uni debaters. Other days they draw judges who dont even know how to debate.
    FED (Friday Evening Debating)
    A smaller competition that runs concurrently with Eastside and ISDA. Its used by most schools as a development competition whilst competing in other competitions.
    A eastern suburbs competition that features some really strong debating schools like Sydney Boys and Sydney Girls and SCEGGS Darlinghurst. These schools often put up some of their best teams making it an A grade competition but rumour has it that the quality is, like ISDA in decline.
    HICES Debating (Heads of independent Co Educational Schools)
    A B grade competition involving lots of smaller coed independent schools across NSW. Most of the schools are in various parts of outer sydney. Most schools have no coaching and barely established debating programs. Most adjudicators are teachers and the topic pool is as much a lucky dip as the adj draw. Competition is dominated by a handful of schools that actually have some coaching and institutional knowledge like Emanuel School.
    PDC (Premiers Debating Challenge)
    An A/B grade competition and the only established competition (other than Eastside) for Public Schools. PDC involves schools competing in zones of 4-6 teams across 3 rounds + tiebreakers and the zone winners compete in knockouts until the reach the regional finals before progressing to the state level finals. Competition is dominated by selective schools in the Sydney and Northern Sydney Regions (eg Sydney Boys, Sydney Girls, Manly Selective, Hornsby Girls).
    Term 2:
    CSDA (Catholic Schools Debating Association )
    Catholic schools comp. A C grade competition. The metro competition is probably one of the largest private school competitions in Sydney if not Australia. However the competition is known for using its own weird metrics for judging debates, some really strange topics (like metaphorical topics) and the adj pool is a combination of teachers and ex students who volunteer and judge their own school's teams. Schools that do well here like Pius don't do well in other competitions because of how different the quality and approach is.
    I heard they rebranded it but idk what it is called. A C grade social/development competition for 7/8 teams at some lower north shore schools.

    An A grade competition for the Independent Girls Schools in Sydney. Involves 21 or so schools in a 3 pool competition and 7 debate round robin with break to Quarter Finals (or tiebreakers). The seniors in recent years have been dominated by MLC, Abbotsleigh, SCEGGS Darlinghurst, PLC Sydney and Monte. Seniors was won in 2017 by MLC. The Archdale Shield was also won by MLC.

    Competition between the state teams. State team selections take place in March. Best speakers from nationals get selected for the Australian Schools team to compete at World Schools which is in Croatia this year.

    Term 3:
    An A grade competiton of the Combined Associated Schools (Barker, Knox, Trinity, Aloys, Waverly and Cranbrook). The competition runs in term 3 and is known for attracting high quality adjes with its high pay rate for experienced judges.

    An A grade competition of the GPS Schools (Kings, Grammar, Scots, Shore, Newington, Joeys, View and High). The competition usually sees some top quality debates in the 1sts but the competition itself has been a bit rocky over the last few years with some changes to the format and rumors of tensions over certain changes that were pushed. Topics we're quite poor last year, so it'll be interesting to see what happens with the comp this year.

    SDN (Schools Debating Network)
    A B grade competition of various north shore schools. Used mainly as a development comp. The quality of the competition has picked up in recent years. Involves Abbotsleigh, Monte, Roseville, St Pius, Stella Maris, Riverview, Wenona and Redlands. Roseville and Abbotsleigh tend to be the favourites for this comp. In 2016 Senior A was won by Abbotsleigh and Senior B was won by Monte.

    Reps (Archdale vs CAS vs GPS vs CHS)
    A series of debates between the reps teams at the end of term 3. Wins earn points toward the tally and the team with the most points wins. In 2017, Archdale were the winners.

    A 9/10 regional reps competition for CHS students representing their respective regions. Students can only compete once and only one student from any school in the team making for some interesting lineups, though probably to the disadvantage of regions like west sydney that have less schools with strong debating teams.

    Last year's forum was relatively active, but got quite nasty towards the end. Try and keep it active and civil. Encourage people to get involved. The more people, the better discussion.
  2. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    ISDA Groups

    Group A:

    St Augustines
    St Aloysius
    St Josephs
    PLC Sydney

    I'd predict Abbotsleigh, PLC Sydney, St Aloysius and St Josephs to get out of this group. Ravenswood and trinity could also pick up top 4 spots.

    Group B:

    St Luke's
    Loretto Kirribli

    I'd Predict Grammar, Scots, Shore and Loretto Kirrilbilli to get out of this group. Wenona could also be challenging for an Octo's position.

    Group C:

    St Andrews
    Stella Maris

    I'd predict MLC, Monte, Knox and Pymble to get out of this group. Roseville may also be in with a shout.

    Group D:

    St Catherines

    I'd predict Barker, Kincoppal, Kings and Riverview to get out of this group. This is a strong group and competitive group though, as I could also see Kambala, Cranbrook or Ascham getting out of the group.

    I'd be interested to know what everyone else is thinking with regards to these groups, as well as possibly some early predictions for the eventual winner.
  3. MDB1800 Bob McCowan (2)

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    Interestingly, Augustine's have been kicked out/are no longer partaking in the ISDA. Apparently not submitting topics/some other technicality is the justification. Probably a good thing, they didn't win a single seniors debate last year. Newington, unsurprisingly, are the replacement (though apparently they were number 2 on the waitlist). It's great to see movement in the ISDA; it just doesn't make sense for some teams to participate.
  4. bozo_at_oxford Bob McCowan (2)

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    In a new development for the Sydney debating scene, this Sunday saw the introduction of a BP format competition. Whilst it was the first of this competition, the field was relatively strong, with debaters from PLC, SGHS, MLC, Scots and SCEGGS appearing among others.

    In a result that perhaps not all were expecting, Scots dominated the competition, winning the final fairly convincingly from OG, as well as taking the Best Speaker of the Day award and Best Speaker in the Final award. The speaker who did so would certainly be one to watch out for this season. Scots are shaping up to be, as you would expect given there incredible coaching depth, a strong force once again this season. Perhaps this year they can win ISDA once more and finally win the GPS competition after a lengthy wait.

    On another note, State Trials are in a couple of weeks. Wondering what everyone's thoughts are in regards to team predictions this year? Going off last years team, it would appear that one spot is clear on the State team, not counting reserves.
  5. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    Any Results from Friday Night?
  6. MDB1800 Bob McCowan (2)

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    Senior A
    Newington (aff) def Abbottsleigh
    Grammar (neg) def St Luke's
    Riverview def (neg) St Catherine's

    All expected, except Newington.
  7. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    Massive Blow to St Luke's Charge for their maiden ISDA title.

    Also Newington may well be good this year. They had a late resurgence in GPS last year which saw them finish with 3 wins, and while they have lost an excellent speaker who was a GPS rep two years in a row, I believe they have two returning speakers from firsts last year. Don't know how good Abbotsleigh is though.
  8. MDB1800 Bob McCowan (2)

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    I really thought St Luke's would win the shield, shock surprise. Even worse, Grammar didn't speak Yim.

    They may well be, but a fluke against Grammar, a Kings win, and a Shore forfeit isn't great, especially with their best speaker gone. Too soon to call; but I'd say this was a neg weighted topic (That women should pay less tax) so it's not looking bad.
  9. Friday Evening Detention Bob McCowan (2)

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    "That we should abolish residential colleges at universities" was the topic on friday. Very aff weighted so expecting some big upsets. Anyone got some results?
  10. BringHomeTheBacon Bob McCowan (2)

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    NSW State Squad as I understand it is as follows:

    Ruby Adler
    John Bivell
    Jessica Cejnar
    Laura Charlton
    Indigo Crosweller
    Alex De Araujo
    Matthew Neal
    Ally Pitt
    James Price
    Sophie Shead
    Sean Walton
    Charlie Yang
    Daniel Yim
    Winnie Yuan

    A few recurring faces indicating the success of last year could well be replicated, if anyone could provide schools and years that would be interesting.
  11. rowerforlife Peter Burge (5)

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    It's now the end of Term 1, with various competitions now in their middle stages. Would we be able to get an update on the progress of ISDA and Eastside? Which schools are in the lead or tipped as favourites to win? Or the relevance of these competitions to GPS title contenders?
    I've heard that High looks to win Eastside and are currently undefeated in Yr 11 and 12. In regards to ISDA, it appears as though Grammar is undefeated in Senior A, and Abbotsleigh undefeated in Senior B.

    Further insight on this would be much appreciated. (The thread hasn't been used much this year)
  12. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    ISDA is about half way through Round 6 at the moment, with a lot of debates having been postponed. These are the results up to round 5.

    * = A Postponed Debate

    Pool A

    1. Aloys - 4
    2. Joeys - 4
    3. Newington - 3
    4. Ravenswood - 3
    5. Abbotsleigh - 3
    6. Trinity - 2
    7. PLC - 1
    8. Queenwood - 0

    Pool B

    1. Grammar - 5
    2. Scots - 4
    3. Wenona - 3
    4. Redlands - 2*
    5. Shore - 2*
    6. Loretto Kirribilli - 2
    7. Brigidine - 1
    8. St Luke's - 0

    Pool C

    1. MLC - 5
    2. Monte - 4
    3. Knox - 3
    4. Roseville - 3
    5. Tangara - 2
    6. Stella Maris - 1
    7. Pymble - 1
    8. St Andrews - 1

    Pool D

    1. Riverview - 5
    2. Kings - 4
    3. Cranbrook - 2
    4. Barker - 2
    5. Ascham - 2
    6. St Catherines - 2
    7. Kincoppal - 2
    8. Kambala - 1

    These standings are all assuming that tie breaking is still done as the way it has been in the past, as is detailed in a previous years GnG post. Given all of the debates aren't complete, the tie breaking is pretty dodgy, but I did my best. If they're now doing a Uni Style system of breaking, who knows.

    If it's the same system of Octo's as last year, the Matchups would be.

    Aloys v Barker
    Scots v Knox
    Monte v Wenona
    Riverview v Ravenswood
    Grammar v Roseville
    Joeys v Cranbrook
    Kings v Newington
    MLC v Redlands

    5/6 CAS Schools are in ISDA. After a couple of years of Barker, Aloys could be in with a shot at winning it again, topping group A. Trinity won't make Octo's. Cranbrook and Barker are both on 2 wins in Pool D, Tied on wins with 5 other teams in that pool, although it would be wrong to completely discount Barker given there recent history and good coaching. Knox is in third on 3 wins in Pool C, but might also consider themselves a good chance with a returning speaker from CAS 1's who is also on the state squad this year as well as the strength of their coaching.

    GPS looks strong this year. There are 7/8 GPS teams in ISDA with the addition of Newington. 2 coming 1st in their pool (Grammar, View), 3 Coming 2nd (Joeys, Scots, Kings), Newington in 3rd, Shore in 5th.

    From a previous post it appears that High is doing well. Bar Shore there have been strong results for GPS Teams in ISDA. I had a look through the archives, and there hasn't been a dominant team for this GPS agegroup. High won it when the current year 12's were year 10's, Grammar was undefeated in year's 8 and 9.

    Should be an interesting GPS Season. I'd be interested to hear anyone with more insight or predictions.
  13. BringHomeTheBacon Bob McCowan (2)

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    In regards to Eastside, the Year 12 competition is dominated by High and Sceggs (both 5/5) with traditional heavyweights SGHS and Grammar both on 2/5. Grammar’s results are understandable given they field their GPS 3rds, but SGHS have been unexpected, especially when they’re led by a likely NSW speaker. In any case, High v Sceggs early next term should be an enlightening matchup featuring two NSW squad debaters in De Araujo and Adler. In year 11, High is also undefeated but the teams are more bunched, Sceggs also performing well.

    Based on Eastside and ISDA so far, I’d say the GPS is in for a cracking season, with almost every team seeming stronger than last year.
  14. Friday Evening Detention Bob McCowan (2)

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    Joeys took out Lawrence Campbell, with some controversy over the speech which was apparently a CSDA speech recited word for word. View second and Sydney boys third.
  15. MDB1800 Bob McCowan (2)

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    Absolutely disgusting. Especially when the Adj. was talking about not memorising speech and using statistics, which Joey's speech was full of.

    Surely he should be disqualified?
  16. Friday Evening Detention Bob McCowan (2)

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    Agree about Adj decision rewarding exactly what they said not to do (stats and memorising). Still can’t believe they didn’t see that the speech was memorised (pretty sure he stated the exact number of homeless people in Sydney lol). He should be disqualified but probs won't happen.
  17. Shortrep Peter Burge (5)

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    Any results from Octo's 1?
  18. rowerforlife Peter Burge (5)

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    A huge congratulations to the NSW team of Daniel, Indigo, Sophie and Alex for winning the National Schools Debating Competition in a 6-1 split against SA. Daniel is once again in the Aus Schools team (I believe as captain).

    In other news, Octos have been completed in ISDA. Here are my predictions for the quarters (For Senior A):
    Scots vs Joeys - Scots to win
    MLC vs Riverview - MLC to win
    Grammar vs Barker - Grammar to win
    Shore vs Kings - Kings to win

    I would hazard a bet that the final will be between Grammar and MLC. Looking forward to the coming weeks of debating.

    Also, Eastside semifinals took place on friday. Does anyone know who made it in to the finals this coming friday? Specifically the senior years.

    This is all shaping up to be an exciting GPS season, with High, Grammar and Scots all doing well.
  19. MDB1800 Bob McCowan (2)

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    So much for that, word is that MLC and Grammar both lost (to Riverview and Barker respectively), with MLC on the Aff and Grammar on the Neg of the topic "That we should lift minimum wage and WHS requirements in times of economic crisis" (paraphrased).

    Edit: Kings and Joeys apparently won their respective debates.

    Now the draw is:

    View v Joeys

    Kings v Barker
  20. BringHomeTheBacon Bob McCowan (2)

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    Interesting results regarding ISDA, especially how it may bode for the GPS competition with the competition boasting 3/4 semifinalists (potentially all four if Grammar got up - credit to Barker on the win but does anyone know if their debate was a dodgy call?)

    In Eastside news, High won Year 12 with Sceggs taking out Year 11, though both debates were apparently incredibly close.

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