NTS/Gold Squads

[barbarian]

I was at a Sydney Uni college for three years very recently. We had a number of top level junior rugby players (Junior Waratahs) and a couple of other colleges also had some.

Almost all of these boys came from private school backgrounds (in NSW, ACT or QLD), so had the financial backing to afford the high fees in most cases. RF you mention an 'extension of the private school system' and you are right- but its not because of anything elitist or exclusionary, its just that both naturally cost a lot of money and so attract the same clientele. However, each player was on a scholarship of some description, not to mention received vast benefits from Sydney Uni Sport (free gym, tutors etc). I don't think anyone had ALL their college fees paid, but contributions were certainly made.

It wasn't isolated to rugby players though. We had plenty of top sportsmen and women, musicians, academics etc. who had scholarships of varying levels. These colleges have a vast amount of funds through donations, fees and university contributions.

I think the Sydney Uni dominance of colts rugby is a terrible thing, but it is hard to see a solution to it. If I was a top player and was offered the benefits Sydney Uni Rugby players receive I would certainly grab the opportunity with both hands.

 

[RugbyFuture]

Its certainly true that its not because they're elitest, Im more refferring to scholarships to top sportsman and the links accrued whilst at these colleges.

but as you point out, its the donations from being around for 150 years which allows them to do this. same reason USyd still has a student union, and UWS only have a shitty society which no one cares about.

 

[I like to watch]

So in essence if the players are receiving "free accomodation" as suggested isn't that something that many clubs have done to attract players over time? That said I personally I don't believe that any of the colleges give scholarships based on rugby ability alone. Most want boys who have good scholarly ability plus excel in other areas like music, drama and sports, particularly boys who are good at more than one sport. I know that the average ATAR for the fresher intake at one of the colleges last year was around 95.0.

Uni Rugby Club offer these packages, not the colleges. Kids are given deadlines to accept so that Uni can then offer these places to those further down the food chain. It has everything to do with their Rugby, not their marks or their musical ability. That's without addressing the discounted/subsidised tuition fees that some are offered.
If you think it is right that financial incentives for Uni's colts players exceeds the TOTAL expenditure of some Shute Shield Clubs then what Uni is doing is OK.
But I think you are in the minority.

 

[lincoln]

Sydney Uni has gone too far across the board - boys with sub 60 ATARs are being offered non-degree course so they can join the sports programme. Sorry but this should be restricted to the guys and girls who but for their sporting commitments would have done better in the ATAR.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Sydney Uni should be praised for their support of rugby and helping athletes get a degree. Surely other clubs should be affiliating their colts with other unis as Randwick is doing with UNSW. Why can't we have a U.S. style inter university colts' competition that would have teams such as UNSW/Randwick and UWS/Penrith? Think of how many more players would stay in the game and also do study for 3 more years.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I was hoping somebody with knowledge of Uni's setup would chip in with how their system works.

Bruce has done this at length since he joined the forum. Maybe if he sees this he will give it another go for the newcomers in the last 12 months. Then in 12 months time he will have to do it again.

He certainly got me off my high horse on the matter.

I think I'll pass, LG. As Josh Billings sagely observed a century and a half ago: "The trouble with the world ain't ignorance, it’s just that people know so much that isn't so."

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Question: What is it better for a good schoolboy player to do - go to Uni play colts for a year or two, competing with a lot of talented other schoolboy players, possibly playing some first grade colts. Then progress into the lower grades where competion throughout the grades is even stronger and the possibility of playing first grade is only a reality much later in your playing career; OR

go to a club where competition for spots is not as strong, coaching is at a high level, you will probably play second grade colts and then get a lot more chances to play first grade colts and even some grade games. Then when you progress into grades the chance to play first grade might come much sooner as competition for spots is not as strong.

P.S. this club can arrange for a job and provide some assistance with accommodation

 

[barbarian]

Iluvmyfooty you neglect the fact that whilst you may be playing a lower level of rugby at Uni, you are also getting a great degree with an ATAR allowance and free tutor assistance. That is a huge carrot. Throw in top level gym and physio facilities and it would be very hard to turn down.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Iluvmyfooty you neglect the fact that whilst you may be playing a lower level of rugby at Uni, you are also getting a great degree with an ATAR allowance and free tutor assistance. That is a huge carrot. Throw in top level gym and physio facilities and it would be very hard to turn down.

And a large HECS debt when your degree is omplete

 

[barbarian]

So its better not to go to uni then?

 

[RugbyFuture]

Lots of people from a certain socio economic demographic which is popular in Rugby would have their University payed for either through Scholarship or generous parents.

 

[CTPE]

I think I'll pass, LG. As Josh Billings sagely observed a century and a half ago: "The trouble with the world ain't ignorance, it’s just that people know so much that isn't so."

Pity Bruce... you seem to be highly regarded at GGR. As a newish member I would have liked to have read your view on this issue.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

So its better not to go to uni then?

I'm not saying that. Just if you go to Uni just for rugby there are plus's and minus'. If you want a Uni degree, the Uni social network and any employment benefits that going to uni may bring then by all means go and get these and if rugby gets you there then good. However you need to weigh up all arguments and unfortunately some players go to Uni without doing this just because it is Sydney Uni.

Sydney Uni use all they have to attract players, just as other clubs do when they approach players, and I have no problems with this. The plain fact is that Sydney uni have more than most to offer. Again I have no problems with this.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If I'm a young bloke who is studying at Sydney Uni anyway, then sure as shit I'm going to play my footy there if I can. Furthermore, if I have a choice of going to several Uni's in NSW and I qualify for each and Sydney is one of them, then I'm going to Sydney and playing rugby there. The attraction would be too great in terms of the facilities etc.

 

[Parra GM]

No-one is arguing the attraction and the quality of the facilities and coaching..............for all sports. The fact remains, that despite any amount of chest beating that goes on, we all know, with the value of creative accounting, the facilities are paid for by the tax payer. Sure there's philanthropic support and grants from individuals/companies etc but the vast majority of it comes from federally funded support. And good on Uni for realising a decade ago that if they did that, they could build a dynasty. The issue is that NO other club in the competition has access to the federal funds that they do. Hence it is an uneven playig field. The other thing Uni did to change things was to abolish the rule that to play for Uni you had to be a student there. Maybe they should bring that back!

I also dont believe for one second that UNi have developed rugby.Uni develop Uni. If they were developing rugby (or any other sport) then they'd open up those scholarships to other clubs for other players. Imagine that, if they allowed 1 scholarship per club to the university. Then the sceptics like myself would not have a leg to stand on because then (and only then) Uni would be developing rugby.

 

[barbarian]

I'm not saying that. Just if you go to Uni just for rugby there are plus's and minus'. If you want a Uni degree, the Uni social network and any employment benefits that going to uni may bring then by all means go and get these and if rugby gets you there then good. However you need to weigh up all arguments and unfortunately some players go to Uni without doing this just because it is Sydney Uni.

Sydney Uni use all they have to attract players, just as other clubs do when they approach players, and I have no problems with this. The plain fact is that Sydney uni have more than most to offer. Again I have no problems with this.

I agree, especially with your second paragraph. The fact is Sydney Uni have FAR more to offer than any other club, and it receives a lot of taxpayer money as ParraGM points out.

As for the 'Uni develops rugby' point, I agree with ParraGM that Uni are self-serving in everything they do. Which is their right, but rugby in NSW certainly suffers because of it. The idea of one scholarship per club is a bit pie in the sky but its on the right track. With the funding they have they could do more for NSW rugby.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Can we resolve once and for all this issue of federal funding at Uni? There seem to be a lot of half-truths and innuendo being thrown around here.

 

[barbarian]

Well Universities do receive a lot of taxpayer funds, much like all levels of education. They receive money from a lot of other sources though.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'm talking as it pertains to rugby and by Uni, I meant Sydney Uni in the Shute Shield. I should have made that clearer.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Sydney Uni is a completely seperate entity to Sydney Uni Rugby Club. It is asociated but is managed and funded seperately to the Rugby Club. Government funding is provided to the University through subsidies and grants that are designed to help the Uni run. With the introduction of HECS the funding was reduced dramatically as HECS is designed to repay the Govt for the funding provided. Some funds may be diverted to the UNI's various sporting associations but this is allowed under the Uni's charter. No Govt funds are directly received by the Sydney uni Rugby Club. Various scholarships may be provided by various private organisations for the Uni degree but there are scholastic and possibly financial qualifications that must be met before such scholarships are awarded. NO SPORTING SCHOLARSHIPS are offered