NTS/Gold Squads

[I like to watch]

Does it matter?
Uni need to be saved from themselves. they are the Vampire Squid of the Shute Shield.
If they get any more successful they will have to play themselves in the GF.
Being a strong club is a good thing, however they have gone beyond that and are now weakening the whole competition with their dominance.

 

[CTPE]

Further to Iluvmyfooty's statement SURC relies of the Sydney University Football Club Foundation for its funding. This Foundation was established in 2003 with a goal of raising a $2m capital fund which was achieved by 2007.

See http://www.sydneyunirugby.com.au/sufcf/index.php for more info

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Does it matter?
Uni need to be saved from themselves. they are the Vampire Squid of the Shute Shield.
If they get any more successful they will have to play themselves in the GF.
Being a strong club is a good thing, however they have gone beyond that and are now weakening the whole competition with their dominance.

Better get rid of Randwick too then. When I was growing up they were pretty much unbeatable for a period of time.

 

[Parra GM]

Sydney Uni is a completely seperate entity to Sydney Uni Rugby Club. It is asociated but is managed and funded seperately to the Rugby Club. Government funding is provided to the University through subsidies and grants that are designed to help the Uni run. With the introduction of HECS the funding was reduced dramatically as HECS is designed to repay the Govt for the funding provided. Some funds may be diverted to the UNI's various sporting associations but this is allowed under the Uni's charter. No Govt funds are directly received by the Sydney uni Rugby Club. Various scholarships may be provided by various private organisations for the Uni degree but there are scholastic and possibly financial qualifications that must be met before such scholarships are awarded. NO SPORTING SCHOLARSHIPS are offered

Man, I whole heartedly disagree with all of that. The Uni rugby club atleast and Uni Sport in general have done so/and continue to offer free college fees, heavily discounted tuition fees, free tutors and extended deadlines on assigment submission to ALL of the players they recruit to the club.

 

[lincoln]

Sydney Uni is a completely seperate entity to Sydney Uni Rugby Club. It is asociated but is managed and funded seperately to the Rugby Club. Government funding is provided to the University through subsidies and grants that are designed to help the Uni run. With the introduction of HECS the funding was reduced dramatically as HECS is designed to repay the Govt for the funding provided. Some funds may be diverted to the UNI's various sporting associations but this is allowed under the Uni's charter. No Govt funds are directly received by the Sydney uni Rugby Club. Various scholarships may be provided by various private organisations for the Uni degree but there are scholastic and possibly financial qualifications that must be met before such scholarships are awarded. NO SPORTING SCHOLARSHIPS are offered

I am all for athletes wanting a USyd degree being given some assistance. However, maybe they should change their name and omit the Uni part if the links with University are increasingly tenuous - how many players in the current setup are either grads or actual full time students at "Sydney Uni" (not UTS or any other institute). University is about academia first (ie reason why you go) and everything else second.

 

[Parra GM]

Does it matter?
Uni need to be saved from themselves. they are the Vampire Squid of the Shute Shield.
If they get any more successful they will have to play themselves in the GF.
Being a strong club is a good thing, however they have gone beyond that and are now weakening the whole competition with their dominance.

Finally something I agree with. I must be getting cranky in my old age or something.

Some things worth noting IMO.
Dominance kills the competition.
When St George won everything in the league in the 50s and 60s crowds dropped off, corporate support dropped off. The NSWRL at the time had the foresight and intestinal fortitude to realise something needed to be done. So they changed the rules. It took balls to change it too. And Canterbury knocked St George off in the final then lost to Souths in the grand final before a record crowd. That was 50 years ago.
Uni's dominance is beginning to have the same effect. However the difference is, neither the NSWRU or the ARU have either the foresight or the balls to make some changes. And why is that? Have a look at where the CEO's played their rugby. The last CEO of NSWRU is a life member of Uni. They are never going to change it to even the comp, coz they dont have the foresight to try to build a strong competition that anyone can win.
Even in the NRL, with all of the Storm's financial infringements and dominance, in any 1 year over the past 10 years, up to 10 teams were capable of making the gf. You could never say that of the Shute Shield.

Now this isnt Uni's fault (despite all my criticisms I do feel this way). They just realised what they could offer and went out and did it. And well done to them. BUt even they would concede it is killing the integrity of the competition.

RUPA needs to take some of the heat too. The CBA in place for the professional players also kills the comp. It restricts the Unions from telling the top players where they should play their club rugby. So they all go to Uni and Randwick. Those sides scrape into the semi's..................Randwick were 16 competition points behind 5th place last year, then pick a super 14 team for 3 games. Imagine if that happened in the nrl. The public would burn down the NRL office.

When new players are signed to the Super franchises, such as Berrick Barnes last year for example, they should go to a bottom 6 club. We all know they only play 2 or 3 games, but think what it would have done for the game out west if Barnes went to Penrith. Or Vickerman came to Parra. The general public would actually start giving 2 hoots about club rugby. And that can't be a bad thing.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Man, I whole heartedly disagree with all of that. The Uni rugby club atleast and Uni Sport in general have done so/and continue to offer free college fees, heavily discounted tuition fees, free tutors and extended deadlines on assigment submission to ALL of the players they recruit to the club.

The comment I made was in response to questions raised about how the subsidies are funded. Some suggestions were made that these came out of government funding. I have no doubt that some players receive free or subsidised college fees but as stated these colleges have private funding and any arrangements are outside the usual operations of the University. All students must attain a suitable atar to do a Uni course so the only advantage that the UNI itself can offer that I can see is there may be some arrangement where a student will be given an assurance that they will be able to get into the course they want. Same goes for tutors - if the rugby club can arrange for free tutors then what is the problem with that.

 

[Parra GM]

The comment I made was in response to questions raised about how the subsidies are funded. Some suggestions were made that these came out of government funding. I have no doubt that some players receive free or subsidised college fees but as stated these colleges have private funding and any arrangements are outside the usual operations of the University. All students must attain a suitable atar to do a Uni course so the only advantage that the UNI itself can offer that I can see is there may be some arrangement where a student will be given an assurance that they will be able to get into the course they want. Same goes for tutors - if the rugby club can arrange for free tutors then what is the problem with that.

I think I'll just agree to disagree with ILMF.
It is my belief that both the Uni and the Colleges within receive federally funded financial support which is used as incentives to recruit. As I mentioned in other comments, that aint Uni's fault. They worked out how to do it and made the most of it. What I have a problem with is that NO other club has access to such federal support. And IMO that aint an even playing field.

But as I said, I'll agree to disagree. These comments are actually moving away form the intention of this thread and I'm sure people are thinking 'can we just get on with it'.

 

[barbarian]

When new players are signed to the Super franchises, such as Berrick Barnes last year for example, they should go to a bottom 6 club. We all know they only play 2 or 3 games, but think what it would have done for the game out west if Barnes went to Penrith. Or Vickerman came to Parra. The general public would actually start giving 2 hoots about club rugby. And that can't be a bad thing.

Agree wholeheartedly.

The NSWRU needs to grow a pair and start getting some of the big names to play out west. It would hardly affect the players themselves- they would still use the NSW facilities (gyms, physios etc.) but go and train and play with their allocated side. The only downside I can see is a player struggling for form wouldn't be thrilled to don the Penrith jersey on Saturday and face a defeat from a stronger side. But there is much more at stake here than individual form I would venture.

 

[Bruce Ross]

The Uni rugby club atleast and Uni Sport in general have done so/and continue to offer free college fees, heavily discounted tuition fees, free tutors and extended deadlines on assigment submission to ALL of the players they recruit to the club.

I know of people who can prove that both the Uni and the Colleges within receive federally funded financial support which is used as incentives to recruit.

I think this has gone far enough. What is being alleged here is corrupt conduct on the part of the University and its academics which if taken seriously would result in a referral to the New South Wales Independent Commission Against Corruption. I think we are witnessing a new low in attacks by one club on another if the writer is in fact who he purports to be.

And of course, others enthusiastically join in with their own "knowledge" of outrageous and absurd amounts of money being paid at Sydney Uni which totally defy logic.

Such is the nature of the internet forum.

 

[I like to watch]

So no Colts players receive accommodation at the Uni Colleges at no cost to them?
Everyone pays full tuition fees?
Seriously??

 

[blues recovery]

I think we are on the wrong forum topic however irrespective of how our friends at Uni fund their operation there is something fundamentally wrong with a competition when a team can finish 5th as Uni did last year and play a team that finished second in a semi at their home ground. This was outrageous. the other outrageous thing was Barnes playing at Uni last year. Nobody possibly could defend that these happenings were
1 Fair
2 Good for the integrity of the comp

 

[DPK]

I think we are on the wrong forum topic however irrespective of how our friends at Uni fund their operation there is something fundamentally wrong with a competition when a team can finish 5th as Uni did last year and play a team that finished second in a semi at their home ground. This was outrageous. the other outrageous thing was Barnes playing at Uni last year. Nobody possibly could defend that these happenings were
1 Fair
2 Good for the integrity of the comp

How is that unfair? You should probably explain your reasoning, and hope that it's airtight, lest you be bitch slapped by Bruce et al.

 

[blues recovery]

Barnes was clearly a non local marquee player coming onto the competition because of his Waratah signing. Clubs enquired with the NSW rugby union as to what process was needed to seek to have Barnes afiliated with their club . The deal was supposedly find him accomodation and a car and hes yours. Then the deal changed and an absurd amount of money for a club to pay was demanded. And which club was able to afford the demand. And which club didnt look like they had a hope in hell of winning the comp till Barnes arrived. And this was all good for the game. And we wonder why our code is in the toilet, especially in NSW.

 

[cyclopath]

I think we are on the wrong forum topic however irrespective of how our friends at Uni fund their operation there is something fundamentally wrong with a competition when a team can finish 5th as Uni did last year and play a team that finished second in a semi at their home ground. This was outrageous. the other outrageous thing was Barnes playing at Uni last year. Nobody possibly could defend that these happenings were
1 Fair
2 Good for the integrity of the comp

Well, the selection of the ground was by the NSWRU, so venting your spleen at Uni is a bit rich. It was also well covered at the time. No, it did not paint a good picture.

So no Colts players receive accommodation at the Uni Colleges at no cost to them?
Everyone pays full tuition fees?
Seriously??

I don't think that's what Bruce said.

 

[blues recovery]

Well, the selection of the ground was by the NSWRU, so venting your spleen at Uni is a bit rich. It was also well covered at the time. No, it did not paint a good picture.

My spleen venting is at the whole operation of NSW Rugby that allows the favouritism and undue influence of wealthy and connected to run code in our state. Lets hope that the new SRU Body can reinvigorate the comp and make it potentially a more even and balanced comp. You will always have well run clubs like Uni and basket cases as was Parra last year, But we all need to look at the big picture of broadening the appeal of our code in Sydney. Yes there is a population west of Anzac Parade.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Why is everyone so critcal of a program that supports 300 athletes?

Firstly the scholarship system is too obscure and discretioary. Get rid of the current mob and find someone who can produce a list of scholarships that you actually apply for, get offered, accept and then get your picture taken for the website with the value of your scholarship.

Secondly, don't award scholarships to people going to other universities.

Thirdly, don't give more than the uni standard 5 bonus points for elite athletes. Some day soon a barrister's son is going to just miss out on a course and find out that some fat prop got into the course thanks to 15 bonus points. There wil be dead bodies everywhere.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Pity Bruce... you seem to be highly regarded at GGR. As a newish member I would have liked to have read your view on this issue.

Sorry, CTPE, it's just not worth the effort. As you can see the allegations just keep getting more and more stupid and/or malicious.

 

[CTPE]

I can certainly agree with that Bruce.

 

[cyclopath]

Well, the selection of the ground was by the NSWRU, so venting your spleen at Uni is a bit rich. It was also well covered at the time. No, it did not paint a good picture.

My spleen venting is at the whole operation of NSW Rugby that allows the favouritism and undue influence of wealthy and connected to run code in our state. Lets hope that the new SRU Body can reinvigorate the comp and make it potentially a more even and balanced comp. You will always have well run clubs like Uni and basket cases as was Parra last year, But we all need to look at the big picture of broadening the appeal of our code in Sydney. Yes there is a population west of Anzac Parade.

Thanks for the condescension, mate. I am well aware of the relative geography of Sydney. Doesn't really aid the debate.