NTS/Gold Squads

[F1Fan]

Don't forget that Manly snaffled Jim Leis, John Dorahy and Les Boyd as well from Wests!!

They got Dorahy and Boyd, but Jim Leis never played for Manly. He played for Wests, Canterbury and Cronulla

 

[sportsfan]

So what do you say to a boy who lives in Petersham, went to Scots and is now enrolled at UWS about which team to play for?

 

[CTPE]

They got Dorahy and Boyd, but Jim Leis never played for Manly. He played for Wests, Canterbury and Cronulla

You are indeed correct.

 

[CTPE]

More on NTS at: http://www.nswjuniors.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/NTS_Program_outline_2009.pdf

 

[CTPE]

2 years ago the NSWRU selected a Western Sydney TIP side in the U15s. There were kids from 3 western sydney State Championship squads (Parra,Wests/Eastwood) to chose from at this TIP camp plus any other kid who was interested and lived in western sydney. The kids were beep tested and had athletic testing conducted by the NSWRU/ARU 'experts'. Only 6 kids in total from those 3 squads made the TIP team. The squad was selected in October or November and trained together for months. As a consequence of so few of the state champs kids making the tip squad, SJRU's Western Zone ran a program with volunteer coaches who consulted all of the State Championship coaches asking for nominations. Invitations to train were then issued to the list, again in consultation with the coaches at the coal face. They trained together for a few weeks. At the end of the year, these 2 sides played a match. The Western Zone side FLOGGED the TIP squad by 8 tries to 1.

Following Malcsy's lead, I wont name these players. But rest assured it was a belting of the highest order. The TIP program picked kids who were gifted athletes. The Western Zone guys picked kids who were gifted rugby players.

I can only hope that the selection process for TIP changed after that result.........................

Was told today that the ARU announced their U16 Junior Gold Squad Merit Team on Friday and that it contains plenty of boys from the Eastwood/Wests/Parra U15 State Championship teams from last year as well as a good mix of players from both private and government schools. Yet to see the list but hear that quite a number of the boys were in the Sydney and NSW U15 sides from last year.

 

[ned]

The issue a lot of NSW GPS schools are having is the NTS has a largely negative impact on a boys performance. Firstly the NTS deliberately pumps these boys up to believe they are god's gift to Australian rugby- for example last year's group were specifically told that they would form the nucleus of the 2015 World Cup squad. Some of these kids are only 16 FFS. So of course that expands their head several sizes, as they are made to believe they are a walk-up start for Rep honours. It has also lead to a sense of entitlement when dealing with S14 academies and the like- as opposed to just being happy with selection, some boys are making demands of top clubs and even S14 franchises just after they leave school, ie 'I won't play colts, I want a guaranteed first grade jersey'.

The NTS also provides quite rigorous dietary, weight and training programs, which interfere with school programs. The NTS authorities don't apologise to schools for this, or provide compensation of any kind. It is simply a case of 'pulling rank'. This creates yet another rift between schools and the ARU, and can really effect smaller schools with only one 'star player'.

Basically I think it is a poorly conceived idea run badly. The idea of a 'development pathway' from the NTS to the Wallabies will be deeply harmful as it actively excludes those who miss spots in squads picked on the basis of one or two trials (eg the National U16s). The selection of the Australian Under 20s is a testament to this, and is an absolute disgrace. Instead of scouring the best Colts players based on club form, the selectors simply pick players straight from the Australian schools side last year, and throw in a few NTS players that missed the Aus schools side due to injury or form. It really annoys me to think of the quality players who have given up the game because they weren't lucky enough to be put into one of these squads, and have thus missed out on any rep side for years after.

The converse is also true- there are plenty of players around colts and schools rugby who are constantly picked for rep sides for no discernable reason other than they are in the NTS because of a good couple of games at the U16s carnival a few years ago.

Totally agree with you barbarian, maybe the Australian u20s would be more competitive if they selected the form Colts players. Also the so called selectors should stop influencing these kids to play grade, some players may have the size to compete at grade level, but mentally just aren't quite ready.

 

[twenty seven]

This debate is getting sportal-esque, although with better grammer.

I think Uni does destroy the fabric of rugby here (I'm entitled to that opinion and no matter how much self justification from the Uni people I'll continue to feel it), but at issue is the NTS and the idea of the "elite athlete" and "career paths". These kids are taught that the sun shines out their bums because they're usually bigger, faster and stronger than kids in their age division, they then map out their life as a professional athlete and go where they think they can further their careers.

I think you are bit narrow minded and ill informed. Boys were selected on ability that has been demonstrated time after time. They are not choosen for the here and now but for the future. They still have to work hard and prove themselves. If their work ethic is poor or they bring rugby into disrepute then they are asked to leave. Most are given coaching to better their abilities and both the NTS/JGS and schools work together to improve their abilities. Most of the trainings are dropped of during the school season. These lads are told on many occasions that the NTS/JGS is NOT an open door to Super15 or the Wallabies. Most boys work hard. Never confuse confidence for arrogance. Their will always be those with bigger heads then abilities. A lot of these lads go through the rigors of playing club football; academy training if their lucky. Some try straight for the big franchise simply because they are trying to support themselves finacially, not all come from wealthy famailies.
They are told that they need to develop first and that their time may come but it won't be until abilities are developed and bodies have finished growing.There are not that many like rabbit out there.
NSW may do it a different way, by the sounds of it there are many unhappy campers in that part of the world.

 

[CTPE]

Did anyone have the patience to trawl through the 2011 rep teams - NSW & Qld Schools (16's & Opens) and Oz (Opens) to see where the JGS players ended up?

 

[Lee Grant]

You've got the nomination CTPE.

 

[Knockers]

Who is currently in the QLD NTS?

 

[CHS 72]

To F1Fan

As an old Wests fan, I can still remember how Manly plundered the playing ranks of Wests (and other rivals) in the 70s.
Manly poached Dorahy, Boyd and Ray Brown in one hit. All three were current internationals. After a long time, I think I am finally over it.
Manly administration (old brigade) were sensitive about how it was perceived. One night after Wests played Manly at Brooky, I was in the club bar, drinking and celebrating (too loudly) after the Magpies had won. I happened to mention how Manly had stripped West bare of their three international, when from nowhere Gordon Willoughby (a Committeeman) stormed through the noisy throng and pushed me to the ground. Fair dinkum, he had steam coming out of his ears.
Suffice to say I was ejected by the bouncers and Gordon was allowed to remain. I guess I got what I deserved.

 

[lily]

You certainly did you big %@#). Go the Pepsi's.

 

[Lee Grant]

Hey let's talk about the rugby and not league.

Mind you I was ropeable when Manly stole Mick O'Connor from the Dragons.

You said talk about the rugby Lee? Right-O.

 

[Newbie]

You hit the nail on the head!

I think the issue is that the mungo's will sign them up, as they appear to do from about age 16 or so, if the ARU doesn't get their hooks into them pre-colts.

The old enticement of a scholarship to a Rugby school doesn't seem to be as attractive anymore, and what scholarships there are do not appear to be funded by ARU - therefore no obligation implied or otherwise to the ARU on behalf of the recepient.

Annecdotally the mungos even seem to be offering scholarships to traditional rugby schools for some of their rising stars with post school contractual obligations to mungoland for the kids.

There are any number of schoolboy stars either playing both codes thru school, or just playing rugby for school, who are getting poached by mungoland recruiters.

The ARU can not afford to leave development up to the colts programs of TNSS, and QLD Premier rugby clubs. I reckon it would be a case of too little, too late.

HJ,

You couldn't be any more right if you tried!

A good example is the Brisbane Broncos who actually offer scholarships to Brisbane Grammar in certain circumstances!

Regards,
Newbie

 

[Man on the hill]

HJ,

You couldn't be any more right if you tried!

A good example is the Brisbane Broncos who actually offer scholarships to Brisbane Grammar in certain circumstances!

Regards,
Newbie

Another would be the Sydney swans picking up the tab for a few lads at Riverview, including former child star rugby players.

 

[Newbie]

Very True!

Another would be the Sydney swans picking up the tab for a few lads at Riverview, including former child star rugby players.

Very true, the name Alex Jalloh springs to mind! The oldest 11 year old I had ever seen in 2007 ... Lol.

Bloody hell MOTH I'm getting tired of you being right and having to agree with you. Can't you write something inflammatory so we can go back to the way it used to be ... Lmao!!!

Regards,
Newbie.

 

[Man on the hill]

Very true, the name Alex Jalloh springs to mind! The oldest 11 year old I had ever seen in 2007 ... Lol.

Bloody hell MOTH I'm getting tired of you being right and having to agree with you. Can't you write something inflammatory so we can go back to the way it used to be ... Lmao!!!

Regards,
Newbie.

Yes Jalloh was the player I had in mind & yes the oldest kid in the U14s as they used to say!

All this agreement - starting to feel wrong - think i'll go back to being objectionable!

Cheers MOTH

 

[jannypan]

Has the NTS been going long enough to have produced successful graduates into the Wallabies?

 

[CTPE]

Has the NTS been going long enough to have produced successful graduates into the Wallabies?

These are the ones that I'm aware of:

Kurtley Beale
Quade Cooper
Pek Cowan
Ben Daley
Anthony Fainga'a
Saia Fainga'a
Will Genia
Rob Horne
Ben McCalman
James O’Connor
David Pocock
Rob Simmons
James Slipper
Lachlan Turner
Ben Daley
Rod Davies
Rob Horne
Pat McCabe

 

[Newbie]

These are the ones that I'm aware of:

Kurtley Beale
Quade Cooper
Pek Cowan
Ben Daley
Anthony Fainga'a
Saia Fainga'a
Will Genia
Rob Horne
Ben McCalman
James O’Connor
David Pocock
Rob Simmons
James Slipper
Lachlan Turner
Ben Daley
Rod Davies
Rob Horne
Pat McCabe

CTPE,

All great players, nevertheless in a nation such as ours how do we still not have a team that can consistantly beat the All Blacks.

For mine the secret lies in Western Sydney, the Illawarra, the southern suburbs of Brisbane (e.g, Logan and Inala), and Ispwich QLD. There is an abundance of prodigious talent in these areas which league is able to unearth and develop, so why not rugby?

I am sorry but no longer can Australia rely on the Private School system to bail us out of this dilemma!

Regards,
Newbie.