ODI World Cup 2019

[Up the Guts]

Great points Froggy re Smith and Warner. I always thought Warner would be alright mentally when he came back because he's always been a fighter who was used to playing the villain. I was a bit more concerned that Smith might succumb to the pressure and negative press.

Definitely, the brightest moment last night was Smith smiling when he was booed for his 50. Felt a bit like a return to normality with Smith carrying the team to something that could at least be bowled at. He had played pretty well in the tournament before last night but I think he'll take a lot of confidence from that knock going into the Ashes. Hopefully, we see the Barmy Army screaming themselves hoarse as Smith and his robotic eye grind them into the dust.

 

[Braveheart81]

Does anyone think we should have bowled?

No. I think that pitch was a bit of a road and we just batted very poorly.

England bowled very well particularly early on and we could never recover.

 

[RugbyReg]

Sadly, that result was always just around the corner for us this WC. We have relied so heavily on Finch and Warner, with Smith providing a bit of stability in the middle and Carey delivering at the end, and no one else really making a contribution. When your entire batting performance falls to just four players, you don't need much to go wrong, or what just happened is the result. It was an opportunity for some others to stand up when it really mattered, but they didn't.
Not that we had a lot of alternatives, but I just don't think Hanscombe or Stoinis are at this level, and Maxi, well you just need someone who can bowl at 145k and you've got him.
Just glad we didn't follow the suggestions of some and leave Smith and Warner out because they 'hadn't done enough to earn their spots back'!
To me the real positives were the way those two stepped right back in where they left off, and the performances of Carey and Behrendorff, who really stepped up to this level. Generally, I though our bowling was pretty good once Behrendorff and Lyon came in.

that was me. There is a theory, which I am not against, the Warner didn't do anything opening that Usman hadn't done the previous 12 months. He never really went off did he? He accumulated runs the same way Ussy had when he was top of the order (averaged 65 there in the last two years).

Who knows what Wade could have done if he'd been given a shot in the middle order for Smith.

 

[Braveheart81]

Not that we had a lot of alternatives, but I just don't think Hanscombe or Stoinis are at this level, and Maxi, well you just need someone who can bowl at 145k and you've got him.

Stoinis had a terrible tournament but we desperately need a player who can bat in the top 6 and reliably get through 10 overs.

Stoinis hasn't consistently been that guy and neither has Mitch Marsh. Maxwell isn't either although I think he is invaluable as a 6th bowler. I really don't think you can have a good ODI team without 6 solid bowling options. Maxwell is great as that 6th bowler because he can get through 10 overs often enough when required. Stoinis' bowling is generally there for that 5th bowler position but his batting is nowhere near consistent enough.

I'm not sure who our options are behind him.

Picking Handscomb was just a poor decision. Wade was such an obvious selection to come in on the back of ridiculous form that has carried on for a substantial amount of time now. They just hate Wade though.

 

[barbarian]

Picking Handscomb was just a poor decision. Wade was such an obvious selection to come in on the back of ridiculous form that has carried on for a substantial amount of time now. They just hate Wade though.

Handscomb was pretty red hot in the pre-tournament ODIs, though, and was unlucky to miss the initial squad. I don't think the selection was that bad. At least you could point to some form.

Stoinis/Maxwell were passengers through the whole tournament, and we probably needed more out of Cummins with the bat too.

We were crying out for a Michael Bevan-type player at 6/7. Someone who you could at least get 20 (25) out of, regardless of the circumstances.
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[Braveheart81]

that was me. There is a theory, which I am not against, the Warner didn't do anything opening that Usman hadn't done the previous 12 months. He never really went off did he? He accumulated runs the same way Ussy had when he was top of the order (averaged 65 there in the last two years).

Who knows what Wade could have done if he'd been given a shot in the middle order for Smith.

I didn't mind Khawaja at 3. He had a solid tournament in the end. Scored 316 runs at 35 and his strike rate was 88 (a little better than Smith and slightly worse than Warner).

I reckon the argument about Wade is fairly moot because they wouldn't have picked him anyway.

Our biggest problem was a lack of contribution with the bat from Stoinis and Maxwell.

 

[Braveheart81]

Handscomb was pretty red hot in the pre-tournament ODIs, though, and was unlucky to miss the initial squad. I don't think the selection was that bad. At least you could point to some form.

Stoinis/Maxwell were passengers through the whole tournament, and we probably needed more out of Cummins with the bat too.

Sure, but Wade had scored 117 and then 155 from 71 balls in his last two one day innings in the two weeks leading up to this game.

Surely they had to back that sort of red hot form so close to the match they have to bring someone in for.

Stoinis and Maxwell again comes back to bowling. Who is there instead?

In hindsight we would have probably been better picking 5 specialist bowlers from 7-11 and just going with our best 6 batters.

 

[Froggy]

Reg, or Wade AND Smith, which to me was the obvious choice.
I can't agree with you re Warner, the guy was 1 run behind Sharma as the top run scorer in the tournament, you are suggesting Usman would have done that much better because he batted one higher up? Sure, it's possible, but it's a big stretch.

 

[barbarian]

Sure, but Wade had scored 117 and then 155 from 71 balls in his last two one day innings in the two weeks leading up to this game.

Surely they had to back that sort of red hot form so close to the match they have to bring someone in for.

Those innings were against second-tier county sides, and Handscomb was in the runs as well in those matches.

I'm as big a Wade fan as anyone and would have picked him, but I don't think selecting Handscomb was particularly aggregious.
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[Up the Guts]

Maybe worth noting that Handscomb's stellar performances pre-tournament were in sub-continental conditions without a swinging ball and where he could go back to defend without having to worry too much about the ball seaming in. Agreed though, it wasn't an outrageous selection by any means.

 

[Up the Guts]

Sure, but Wade had scored 117 and then 155 from 71 balls in his last two one day innings in the two weeks leading up to this game.

Surely they had to back that sort of red hot form so close to the match they have to bring someone in for.

Stoinis and Maxwell again comes back to bowling. Who is there instead?

In hindsight we would have probably been better picking 5 specialist bowlers from 7-11 and just going with our best 6 batters.

Stoinis has been living off that miraculous 145 for a while and apart from the odd 50 here and there hasn't really established himself as a top quality middle order batsmen. His bowling has been generally effective though. I think Mitch Marsh is probably a better batsmen than him and we may have gotten more runs out of him this tournament.

It's easy to argue for these selection changes in retrospect though. Unfortunately, like India, we saved our worst performance for the game that really mattered. On another day we could easily have been discussing how we were looking at winning a sixth world cup.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Does anyone think we should have bowled?

Conditions would've suited Pat, but as ever with Starc he's either hot or cold, there's rarely anything in between. Who knows how he would've gone first up. It certainly appeared the track flattened out throughout the day. Some very ordinary batting from Aus. We really miss a quality ODI leggie.

Stoinis was a complete waste of space as was Handscomb.

Cannot believe peeps writing Smith off, the bloke's pure effing class. He will score an absolute motza this summer. Cannot wait to get stuck into 'em at Test cricket, hopefully shut the booing poms up. They're an absolute disgrace, never even on the hill @ the Gabba have I seen such classless behaviour at the cricket.

I must admit I am expecting similar rogerings at the next world cup.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Stoinis has been living off that miraculous 145 for a while and apart from the odd 50 here and there hasn't really established himself as a top quality middle order batsmen. His bowling has been generally effective though. I think Mitch Marsh is probably a better batsmen than him and we may have gotten more runs out of him this tournament.

Steady on Guts, let's not get too carried away mate!

 

[Up the Guts]

Who knows how he would've gone first up. It certainly appeared the track flattened out throughout the day. Some very ordinary batting from Aus. We really miss a quality ODI leggie.

Agree with this, I don't the pitch had too many demons in it in the end. Like when we rolled England at Lords, there was a bit of seam and swing early on that was exploited well by Archer and Woakes but you have to expect that in England. Smith is a freak but he survived pretty comfortably in the end and had we knuckled down and played the first 5-6 overs a bit more like a test match we may have fared better. NZ should learn from our mistakes. I don't think Wood or Plunkett are particularly threatening bowlers and, although Rashid picked up a couple, he's not necessarily a top class leggie either as long as you keep an eye on the googly. See off Woakes and Archer and make hay against those guys.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't have too many issues with the selections, other than The Stoin, because he didn't play that well in the tournament. Problem is, who else was going to give us some of those valuable overs?

Warner, Smith and Carey were outstanding and I sooooooo hope those idiots keep booing our guys, it just seems to make them play better. I will laugh for about a week solid if we towel them up in the Ashes. Actually, for me this will be the biggest series since we flogged them in '89 when nobody gave us a chance. If we win I'm going to really fucking enjoy it and stick it up every hypocritical whinging Pommy flog I know.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

Agree with this, I don't the pitch had too many demons in it in the end. Like when we rolled England at Lords, there was a bit of seam and swing early on that was exploited well by Archer and Woakes but you have to expect that in England. Smith is a freak but he survived pretty comfortably in the end and had we knuckled down and played the first 5-6 overs a bit more like a test match we may have fared better. NZ should learn from our mistakes. I don't think Wood or Plunkett are particularly threatening bowlers and, although Rashid picked up a couple, he's not necessarily a top class leggie either as long as you keep an eye on the googly. See off Woakes and Archer and make hay against those guys.

Absolutely agree mate, the kiwi openers just need to weather the storm & see off the opening pair. It should be a tight contest, conditions will be key. If conditions are anything like the Aus Eng Lords game, I fancy the kiwis.

I think pretty much the entire world will be cheering on black caps!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Oh God I will be

 

[Up the Guts]

On Carey, I think this tournament he’s not only assured his ODI spot indefinitely but he’s firming as the long-term successor to Paine in the test arena. Admittedly, I haven’t checked his Shield stats but he exudes class and thrives under pressure and just seems like the guy who goes up a level when given higher honours.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Absolutely UTG. He's clearly stepped up to another level this year and should take over the gloves from Paine in due course.

 

[Froggy]

I agree with the comments re Carey from a batting perspective, but I have a bit of a question mark over his glovework as a test WK.