Phil Wilkins is pulling something...

[Ash]

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...-the-difference/2008/09/18/1221331058673.html

Apparently Beale migth've made the difference. Apparently Wilkins might be a journalist. The chances of both are roughly the same.

Anyone actually agree with Wilkins?

 

[Virgil]

Whats Beale's injury status?

 

[fatprop]

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...-the-difference/2008/09/18/1221331058673.html

Apparently Beale migth've made the difference. Apparently Wilkins might be a journalist. The chances of both are roughly the same.

Anyone actually agree with Wilkins?

We missed Barnes' workrate badly, Beale is a totally different player and would have been worse.

 

[naza]

I thought Wilkins was shuffled off to the retirement home ages ago ? He's long been a dribbler. I remember him bashing the Waratahs a few years ago for not signing Trevor Walsh, the most mediocre centre in Sydney rugby.

 

[Pfitzy]

Speaking of half-arsed journos - where is Jenkins these days?

 

[fatprop]

Speaking of half-arsed journos - where is Jenkins these days?

ARU headquarters

 

[Ash]

Whats Beale's injury status?

Good question. Not sure. As far as I am aware, he has not played a game since being ruled out of the under 20 world cup (or whatever it was now). Lee Grant or Lindommer would probably know more, but I thought he was still out.

Beale needs a good off season with lots of tackling in the sand. And maybe a few Webckes running at him for good measure.

 

[Lee Grant]

It seems like Wilkins had a deadline for his paper and the sports editor said to make it controversial.

I'm on record as saying when Beale was 15 that he would be a Wallaby one day if he stayed in our code of rugby and stayed healthy.

I'd like to see him go on tour as 3rd flyhalf and maybe play in the Barbarians game after picking up stuff being in the squad, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near any of the tests they are playing on tour, except in an emergency, because he is not up to scratch defensively.

His injury history is that he got crocked in the S14 final and was almost ready to play in the Shute Shield for Norths about 6 weeks ago IIRR but he broke his hand lifting weights in the gym.

He said then that he hoped to be ready for the Tahs 2 match tour of Fiji so he could prove his fitness to be considered for the Oz EOYT - but the tourists are being selected on Tuesday so his timing is a bit out of whack.

You never know though - he could be chosen on trust as a development player and they may even get him to tackle and whilst they are at it - get him to kick with his left foot.

As for making a difference: the difference we needed was not Beale on the park but for the Oz forwards to play with grunt and menace - in Brockie's famous words: "Like they're breaking into the Opera House with crowbars."

We saw what the Giteau/Barnes combo did in Sydney and it was so good that we knew at the ground that the absence of one of them would have a harmful effect. And so it proved.

I always doubted Giteau's selection as a flyhalf at the test level and wanted Barnes there instead, albeit playing flatter than his wont, but when I saw the 10/12 combo work I changed my mind.

But if Barnes it not available for a test match next year I seek leave to change my mind back again, move Giteau to 12 and put someone else in a 10.

Eventually that could be Beale, but only if he can put large players on the deck as players smaller than himself e.g. Carter, Giteau and Barnes are able to do.

 

[Mainlander]

Lets also not forget that I don't think Robbie has as higher opinion of Beale as Phil Wilkins who I'd guess is currently writing an article about how Phil Waugh must be vital part of Robbie?s plans in the upcoming EOYT.

When the sadders played the Tahs part of Deans (and the Sadders) game plan was to target Beale and to be blunt it worked.

On defence the Tahs tried to hide him at full back yet the Sadders were still able to bring pressure on him by well weighted kicks that forced him to kick with his wrong foot and thus badly or run it up and get smashed.

Beale still has a bloody long way to go and I personally have doubts he'll make it.

Where's that 17/18/19 year old kid that played with the Force this year.... now he impressed me.

 

[naza]

As for making a difference: the difference we needed was not Beale on the park but for the Oz forwards to play with grunt and menace - in Brockie's famous words: "Like they're breaking into the Opera House with crowbars."

That's a gigantic load of stale horseshit you're shovelling old boy. Is this your idea of a tribute to Phil Wilkins ? The Wallaby backs have been stinking up the joint all year. They have been fucking awful. The forwards have done the job and kept us in it.

Bledisloe 3 - we had enough possession to win 2 games. What did the backs do with it ? Up and unders. WOW !! License to play what's in front of you ? Up and unders FFS !!

We've all heard the SIW brigade go on about "all we need is PARITY up front". Well, we've had better than parity at times, and what was the result ? Sweet FA !!

 

[Scotty]

To an extent I'll have to agree with naza here. The forwards did their job in the main, and apart from Sharpe's laziness in getting into position to tackle Smith I can't remember any glaring issues.

For mine it was the defense as a whole that stuffed if for us, and a lot of holes through the midfield. All we had to do was to stop the AB's from scoring for a period of say 10 minutes when we were 17-7 up and the game would have been ours.

There isn't many times that we come out ahead in posession stakes against the ABs and lose the game, so the clear reason for me is too many soft tries.

 

[Lee Grant]

We may have had possession at SunCorp but we were also raped in counter rucking - that's one area that our forwards failed in as they did at Eden Park and JHB whatever the stats say. That's where we needed the grunt and menace that I mentioned.

Agree about the defence being poor - as it was in the other two losses, and, yep, I should have mentioned it. The Kiwis missed a lot more tackles than we did at Suncorp, but some of the ones we missed were key and let to tries for the Blacks. But just because I forgot to doesn't mean that I'm giving a tribute to Phil Wilkins when his main thrust was that Beale should have played, which I disagreed with.

Possession? It was even or near enough, but their quality of possession was better than ours was.

 

[Major Spliff Biggins]

Also agree with Naza.

Cannot blame the forwards for the loss. I blame Cordingly

Lets also not forget that I don't think Robbie has as higher opinion of Beale as Phil Wilkins who I'd guess is currently writing an article about how Phil Waugh must be vital part of Robbie?s plans in the upcoming EOYT.

When the sadders played the Tahs part of Deans (and the Sadders) game plan was to target Beale and to be blunt it worked.
On defence the Tahs tried to hide him at full back yet the Sadders were still able to bring pressure on him by well weighted kicks that forced him to kick with his wrong foot and thus badly or run it up and get smashed.

Beale still has a bloody long way to go and I personally have doubts he'll make it.

Where's that 17/18/19 year old kid that played with the Force this year.... now he impressed me.

I can't agree with that assertion. Tahs were well in the game until Beale got injured. His crossfield kick to set up the first try was terrific.

Is he ready for Oz though? Fuck no. Irrespective of the fact that injury prevented him being there. Wilkins should right about something sensible. Like the need for depth and half back first...

 

[Cutter]

To an extent I'll have to agree with naza here. The forwards did their job in the main, and apart from Sharpe's laziness in getting into position to tackle Smith I can't remember any glaring issues.

For mine it was the defense as a whole that stuffed if for us, and a lot of holes through the midfield. All we had to do was to stop the AB's from scoring for a period of say 10 minutes when we were 17-7 up and the game would have been ours.

There isn't many times that we come out ahead in posession stakes against the ABs and lose the game, so the clear reason for me is too many soft tries.

What about Moore and Elsom missing Cowen for the first AB try? That allowed him to get in behind the Wallabies which pulled in the defenders and gave them quick ball to exploit the massive overlap it helped create.

Having said that, the backs didnt capitalise on the possession they were given. Having said that, the ABs were allowed to slow down the ball so much that the quality of possession the Wallabies had was much worse than that Dan Carter got. So, I point the finger at both backs and forwards.

 

[Lee Grant]

Cutter

I wish I had said that.

 

[naza]

Cutter, fair points. I'd say the forwards comfortably outperformed the backs this season and our backs are holding us back.

I'd also like to see us working on ensuring our attack isn't so reliant on quick ruck ball. Cause all it takes is a slow halfback, a poor ref, a cynical opposition flanker to slow your ball down. Where is our counter-attack ? Where is the offloading ? Why don't our backs have any moves ? Why don't they do something to keep the defence guessing ? Why can't they even field up and unders properly ?

The statute of limitations for trotting out the 'Eddie Jones has them playing like robots' excuse is over.

 

[Gagger]

Having said that, the ABs were allowed to slow down the ball so much that the quality of possession the Wallabies had was much worse than that Dan Carter got.

Cutter, can you please stop pointing the finger at the ref. It's time to move on.

 

[Cutter]

Cutter, fair points. I'd say the forwards comfortably outperformed the backs this season and our backs are holding us back.

I'd also like to see us working on ensuring our attack isn't so reliant on quick ruck ball. Every rugby style game relies on fast ball going forward to create attacking opportunities. Think league and touch as examples. Every defence tries to slow down the ball because they know they are more effective moving forward than backwards. Its only freakish individual moments or very bad defence that allows tries to be scored off slow ball.

Cause all it takes is a slow halfback, a poor ref, a cynical opposition flanker to slow your ball down. naza this is where we cross swords. As a former forward, its my view that the forwards' job is to make sure opposition flankers dont slow it down, to make sure that if your halfback is rubbish, you get the ball to him in a way that he doesnt have any excuses and to play to the ref. At the moment our forwards arent doing this enough. Cordingley was digging for the ball then looking around to where he was going to pass it. By the time he went to pick it up the AB defensive line was set or the ABs had counter rucked and won the ball. It cant always be like this, but it should be on a platter for him so that when he gets there he doesnt need to dig and can pass it straight out.Where is our counter-attack ? I agree with you on this one. The risk/reward ratio for counterattack is out of whack at the moment. Counter attack was in in 2003 when the brilliant counterattacking ABs didnt win the RWC. Successful teams are conservative which is why the ELVs were needed to give a leg up to attackers.Where is the offloading ?The Wallabies have improved, but Wales are the best at this when they play well. Why don't our backs have any moves ? I'm sure they have moves, but they cant run them off bad ball or, if they do run them, they dont work off bad ball.Why don't they do something to keep the defence guessing ? Such as a cross field kick to the winger?Why can't they even field up and unders properly ?

The statute of limitations for trotting out the 'Eddie Jones has them playing like robots' excuse is over.

A few comments above. Over all, I agree that our backs arent performing wonderfully at the moment. Bear in mind though that its not a great backline. Mortlock is too old, Cross is a strong runner but not much of a distributor, Hynes is solid in a Rob Egerton kind of way but no Campese, Barnes is a poor man's Lynagh, Tuqiri is incredibly over rated and doesnt understand rugby lines, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) understands rugby lines but is rarely given a good one to run. Giteau is Giteau but he's not Ella, Larkham or Carter. Also, as much as Eddie Jones is "dissed", the Wallabies scored some beautiful set piece tries with him at the helm.

 

[Cutter]

Having said that, the ABs were allowed to slow down the ball so much that the quality of possession the Wallabies had was much worse than that Dan Carter got.

Cutter, can you please stop pointing the finger at the ref. It's time to move on.

Nice work Gagger. I meant allowed by the Wallabies forwards not by the ref.

 

[cyclopath]

So naza, the backs are all to blame for everything?
Geez, you pillory Lee for what he says, and yet you trundle out the same old tripe ad nauseam with little or no basis.
I'm glad that in your world, we would have won all those games, save for the backs.
I'll ignore some of the tries in Bled 1, Perth and Durban. For example Mortlock's effort, Tuqiri's against the Bokke, Hynes against the ABs...
Clearly no positive work there.
Lee had it spot on - quantity of possession means diddly if the quality sucks. Going backwards ball aint much use to anyone except the oppo.
We got decisively counter-rucked out of the game twice by the ABs. Was this not a problem? Obviously not in naza-land.
I'm happy to admit the backs have got problems - 9-12, 15 for starters. These are not sorted and lack depth. We should have done better in Brisbane with what possession we had, no doubt, but realistically the switch-off at 50 minutes killed us.
To say the backs are holding the forwards back - pure BS. I for one, am not happy with the forward play consistently at all.
The whole team needs to lift.