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Discussion in 'Politics' started by Scotty, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Scarfman Knitter of the Scarf

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    I'm a real doctor. 12th century.

    Thomond, you have doctor envy.

    (I have a nasty feeling that I'm going to lose this argument).
  2. Pfitzy Tim Horan (67)

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    Against a lawyer, and an Irish one, you'll be talked out of your skin
  3. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Rudd's failures keep piling up, but he has others do the dirty work for him:



    So we have seen:

    ETS Program – Rudds ‘greatest moral challenge of our time’ – put straight on the back burner as soon as it was seen as politically damaging
    BER Program – wastage of funds, no value for money, and schools getting buildings they didn’t want
    Green Loans – complete failure and cancellation
    Home Insulation – complete failure, deaths, fires, and now further wastage of funds spent in fixing the problems it has caused (there may still be more fires coming)
    Promise to cut Homelessness by 50% by 2020 – now in serious danger due to BER Program overruns taking money from this program
    Hospital Reform – agreement from the states, but agreement for something that is nothing like he announced and promised
    Power shortage – real danger of Australia not having enough power in the next 5 years, and Rudd not having the guts to discuss nuclear
    Internet censorship – Conroy’s policy having us ranked with countries such as North Korea and Iran
    Private Health Insurance – Promised not to means test looks like it will now be discarded, and means testing will be introduced
  4. Moses Simon Poidevin (60)

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    Seems we always just "miss out" on these bonuses anyway, few grand over some arbitrary limit every time. Will just miss the baby bonus, which is a shame cause I'd have liked a bigger telly. The medicare safetynet refunded 80% of obstetrician fees, and was abolished from 1/Jan. You could claim it when you reached 20 weeks. We were 4 weeks short, so get about $400 back rather than 8k. Not that I have a problem paying for obstetrics; if we wanted free health care we'd have the baby in a broom closet at Royal North Shore.
    What sucks is the fees have been ramped up so much to take full advantage of the government rebate, and we come in just after the stimulus was removed.

    I thought we were already means tested when we pay tax? Why then do we get means tested again whenever the government wants to look like they're doing something? My point being, we have a sliding tax scale that is both visible and efficient. If they want to do something, then adjust this existing system. Why go through the waste of targetted stimulus schemes when you could change a margin and make a much more profound impact on cash in wallet -> spending. But why do that when you can spend where the votes come from.
  5. stoff Dave Cowper (27)

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    Seems like Rudd is on the out. Meeting Gillard and senior ministers. Does his ego allow him to go, will they tear the party apart, or will Rudd talk them in to towing the line? Could be an interesting day tomorrow.

    Update: Apparently all state right factions are now backing Gillard (who is left - who will be her deputy). Rudd Gone. Gillard PM tomorrow.
  6. cyclopath Phil Waugh (73)

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    Big call, Stoff.
    Interesting to see how it pans out.
    Surely some sort of record - Rudd wins election in dominant fashion, enjoys 2 years of golden glow almost immune to media or other criticism, gets smoked before first term ends!!! Talk about sacrificial lamb.
  7. cyclopath Phil Waugh (73)

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    And so to the Caucus it goes.looks like the feral Right of the ALP will have its day again. Good thing for them they have such a good name at the moment in NSW.
  8. matty_k Peter Johnson (47)

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    9am tomorrow. Rudd v Gillard. Unless someone else puts up there hand.
  9. chief John Solomon (38)

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    Rudd's got an ego. But I've always liked them both, and what they've done. Of course I disagree with some things they've done but that's just the business of politics.

    Rudd or Gillard I'm happy with either.
  10. RugbyFuture Lord Logo

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    im gonna go hang myself if theres a choice between abott and gillard. and in response to scotty

    well no, it was opposed by the opposition and therefore halted whilst other matters that could be passed for the benefit of australia could be passed.

    based on state government decisions, however allowing the state governments to determine this was the mistake

    based on grassroots level shonkiness and something that could have happened to any program run by any business with a multi level heirarchy, blame was quickly shifted by the opposition onto the government meaning that they had to spend the money to minimise blame.

    yeh agree with this, dont care though.

    again state government can be blamed, especially the incredibly corrupt ones. still better than what we're getting now.

    thats an incredibly suss statement and something which, if true would have spread further throughout mainstream media, unlikely to happen and in any case, one would have to explore australia's thorium reserves to accomodate for it considering the shift in nuclear tech from uranium and plutonium to thorium

    i agree, stupid, idiotic and someone who doesnt understand internet technology and the frontiers it brings.

    yeh i really dont care about that one.

    but may i also add that he cut funding to rugby whilst increasing funding to league and aussie rules.

    in any case, can abbott do any better? no. he is scum. though he plays rugby

    bring back turnbull or bring in Hockey.
  11. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    I wouldn't mind Gillard as PM. I am looking firmly at the bigger picture here- I really think Malcolm Turnbull should be PM, and if Abbott gets into power than I cant see that happening. Think Gillard will win the election, Abbott will be eventually ousted halfway through the next term after a few fuckups for Turnbull, who will then trounce Labor at the next election.

    He is exactly the leader this country needs- a progressive economic conservative who clearly has his priorities in order. He was booted before because he couldnt control his own party, but he will learn his lesson. Only the lunatic right of the party will derail him, and now Minchin is gone and if Abbott is defeated there is not much chance of this happening IMO. Above all though, Turnbull is the only politician who looks remotely prime ministerial at present. You may disagree with his views, but he has political courage and speaks his mind on all issues bloody well.
    Moses likes this.
  12. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    The ETS was a political fuckup all round, chiefly from Labor and the Greens. Rudd thought he could introduce the bill, then sit back and let it stroll through both houses without having to explain it at all to the Australian people. And for a while that looked like it could be the case. But then Abbott came along and removed Coalition support. Which was far from terminal, it just meant he had to negotiate with the cross-benches to get it through. However, he saw the Libs in disarray so decided to sit back and let them destroy themselves, thinking they would eventually bow to public pressure and get on board. But the problem was, there was no public pressure. Rudd had sat back for way too long, and all of a sudden the Australian people had NO IDEA what the ETS was, and so it fell down at the slightest campaign about a 'big new tax' from the Libs.

    The there were the Greens. The party that is elected solely on the basis of environmental responsibility, because they would get no votes at all if people actually looked at their policies. The government wanted a minimum 5% cut. They wanted a minimum 25% cut. They refused to budge, despite the fact the government was clearly not going to meet them and the public was skeptical of the bill already. But no, the Greens did nothing, at the time the public needed them most. Sure the bill wasnt great, but now because of them we have nothing. Good to see Sarah Hanson-Young getting a bollocking on QandA the other night, finally the Greens are getting the same examination the major parties receive.

    So no, the failure of the ETS was not really the oppositions fault. Sure, if they'd have supported it we would probably have it. But the fact remains the removal of opposition support for the bill was far from the end of it, Rudd still had ample options at his disposal if he really wanted to get it through. But as with everything with Rudd it was about the surface and not the substance, he was getting hammered at the polls and decided it was just too hard.

    And this idea that it was dropped because of 'other matters' is bollocks. Governments dont have to do things one at a time. I think their argument about opposition from the senate would be far more viable if they had kept trying and taken it to the election, because the spotlight would have been on the Greens pointless opposition and not on Labor.
    Moses likes this.
  13. rugbywhisperer Banned

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    Yoo hooo, an arguement at last.
    For me, I have never voted for Labor, primarily on the basis that they just don't get it.
    The (any) country needs business to operate efficiently and profitably and the mining tax simply showed that they really don't get it.here son, you have money, give it to me so I can pay MY bulls.
    Whatever form of federal government we have must eventually make some serious decisions and neither party has the balls to do it;
    1: cut beaurocracy and non productive costs,
    2: care for the aged and infirmed first - they have no means of financial recovery,
    3: fix the indigenous problems and I don't mean throw more money at them,
    4: centralised education with teacher assessment - how on earth can we have an education system where the teachers tell us they should not be assessed. get a job if you can't handle it,
    5: stimulate business, make it easier and more attractive for someone to have go,
    6: more tradies - get kids leaving school at year 10 again to get a trade. Tighten up the standards for progressing to years 11 and 12 at school,
    7: reforn the social security (will never happen). Flick the baby bonuses, single mother bonuses, bleeding heart bonuses, disabled kitten bonus - anything where people get a free ride on us.
    8: limit the dole - gees that is our biggest financial killer along with all the other bleeding heart give aways.
    9: once itis all done - lock it up and kill all politicians
  14. Scarfman Knitter of the Scarf

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    RW - don't forget that money isn't the point. The point is a harmonious and fair society with opportunities for all. Not a single person I know would put money ahead of family, health, etc on a list of priorities but a lot of people seem to want their government to do just that.

    On the coalition's performance 1996 - 2006, John Howard was a poison to national harmony. He was a small-minded vindictive creature and transferred that to the polis. Australia is already a much better nation 3 years later. And in my area, education, I hope never to see again such grossly incompetent ministers as Brendan Nelson and Julie Bishop. Their lack of ability was compounded by their bad faith.

    On the leadership: I don't vote Labor but it's the most extraordinary fall from grace I have ever seen. I think Scotty's assessment is not far from the mark, and this government needs a sharp increase in competence, and the perception of competence. Probably Gillard is the only one who can deliver that second point.
    Ruggo likes this.
  15. chief John Solomon (38)

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    What we have to remember is that Abbott is a very popular leader within his party, and a very different leader to Kevin Rudd. Kevin Rudd went about his time as Prime Minister doing it by himself and failing to consult his other members, this had made him very unpopular. Saw Gillard being interviewed- if you'd call it that. She looks very reluctant indeed to become the Prime Minister after being his loyal deputy. Abbott being a strong religious man, does not go about making his policies without his fellow party members consent like Kevin Rudd did. Hence why if Abbott wins this election it doesn't mean he will ban abortions, enforce the bible blah blah blah. Abbott seems to be an honorable man. I think Turnbull had what it got but the Australian Liberals thought otherwise.

    It's looking like Australia has its first female Prime Minister. Looking forward to it all.
  16. Scarfman Knitter of the Scarf

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    Yeah, how dare they stick to their principles. They should have worked the numbers, like the major parties .
  17. Scarfman Knitter of the Scarf

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    chief, Abbott is constantly in the shit with his party for flying solo. Read the papers, man!
  18. chief John Solomon (38)

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    Unfortunately, I no longer get the Australian delivered anymore. I read the Courier Mail, and its all bagging Rudd all the time, and saying that Abbott, Bishop and Hockey are doing an admirable job. Courier Mail conservatives for you
  19. MrTimms Ken Catchpole (46)

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    The courier mail is terrible. it didn't change to a tabloid format for the fun of it.
  20. chief John Solomon (38)

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    Even the Rugby writer Jim Tucker tried to sway rugby readers to vote for Abbott. I'm not joking.

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