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QLD Reds 2010

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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Ok putting aside the general culture currently in place at each organisation, if JOC (James O'Connor) wanted to play with a top flight backline then the Reds would go close to matching the Brums.

Valentine v Genia is close. Most people would agree that Will probably would be in the Wallaby squad had he stayed fit.

Gits v Barnes. No contest really as Gits is currently the best 10 in the world, but there's no denying Berrick's class.

Tyrone Smith v Cooper. JOC (James O'Connor) could end up playing here for either team, but particularly the Brumbies. Cooper seems more highly rated (than Tyrone) at the moment.

Stirlo v Digby. Basically the same argument as with Gits v BB.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Fainifo v Hynes & ??? Again a test vet and an exciting rookie (be it Morahan, Davies or Connor) match up pretty well.

The tight 5s aint too bad either. Moore a BIG difference.

The bigger difference is the backrow though. We're nowhere near George and Rocky.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Ok the latest I have heard about the Rocky non-signing is that he basically demanded a player clean out. Specified which (including Byrnes and Van) ones he wanted out.

Interesting and fits a comment he says in one of the previous articles about the QRU not agreeing with some of his views, or something to that effect.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Again a test vet and an exciting rookie (be it Morahan, Davies or Connor) match up pretty well.

Well we're talking 2010 so the other winger maybe Digby Ioane or Will Chambers, so If it's Digby & Hynes then the Reds have that contest.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Ok the latest I have heard about the Rocky non-signing is that he basically demanded a player clean out. Specified which (including Byrnes and Van) ones he wanted out.

Oh well good on the Reds for not buckling, what if Howrill gets injured again & now with no MMM we'd be screwed what was Rocky gonna do? Play 4,5 & 6.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Did Elsom think he was being recruited to be a player or to be the recruitment manager and coach?
 
T

TOCC

Guest
hmm, well withouth been to rude, i dont forsee byrnes as a long term solution nor does van 'benjamin button' humprhies have many years left either
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
About Whitaker's departure...

I'm not to blame, says former Queensland Reds recruitment chief Ben Whitaker
By Peter Badel
June 21, 2009 Besieged former recruitment chief Ben Whitaker has defended his performance at Queensland Reds amid claims he bungled the pursuit of Wallabies sensation James O'Connor.

Whitaker, who quit on Friday, said he believed he did a "good job" and hoped his dramatic Ballymore exit would not ruin his work prospects.

Whitaker has been pilloried for failing to pursue O'Connor, the Gold Coast wonderboy who had expressed a desire to return to Queensland next season after moving to Western Force two years ago.

O'Connor's manager Anthony Picone revealed he offered his client's services to the Reds twice in recent months. Both times, he was knocked back by Whitaker.

The Reds made a last-ditch attempt to lure O'Connor last Tuesday, three days after his three-try heroics in his Wallabies run-on debut against Italy.

But the O'Connor camp says Queensland has moved too late, with the 18-year-old to sign a two-year deal with the Force this week.

In the past two seasons, the Reds have been decimated by the offshore departures of Chris Latham, Clinton Schifcofske, Sam Cordingley and Rodney Blake and the retirement of David Croft and John Roe.

Last month, Test forward Hugh McMeniman revealed he would quit the province to play in Japan.

Explosive outside back Digby Ioane continues to mull over a vastly inferior deal to that on offer abroad.

Amid the exodus, Whitaker completed two notable signings - former All Blacks flanker Daniel Braid and Melbourne NRL centre Will Chambers, who will join the Reds next season.

Whitaker resigned on Friday, but scoffed at the perception he failed dismally in recruitment.

"There's been articles in the paper about me but I know what's happened," Whitaker said.

"I'm pretty confident I did a good job. In saying that, it's time for myself and the union to move on.

"I have resigned. I just decided to make a decision and we can all move on. I've got my reasons for doing it. I'm not going to make those public."

It has been reported that Whitaker's decision to walk was sparked by the midweek axing of forwards coach Mark Bell and team manager Brendan Morris.

Whitaker denied the claim.

It is understood he decided to go after a submission he tabled last month, outlining his vision for the rejuvenation of the province, clashed with the views of Queensland powerbrokers.


The Sunday Mail (Qld)

Wonder what that (second bolded bit) was?

Seems to have been a screw up somewhere about J'OC by the first bolded bit.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Seems Mooney wants lots of Jim Williams' time.

Wonder if the players think the cleanout is a good or bad thing?

I'm sure they surely would've wanted some board members to fall on their sword too.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25662806-5002381,00.html

Queensland Reds coach Phil Mooney to seek national help from Robbie Deans
By Wayne Smith
June 20, 2009

Wallabies assistant coach Jim Williams is likely to be asked to take a more hands-on role with Queensland Reds in the next Super 14 campaign following the sacking of forwards coach Mark Bell.

Reds head coach Phil Mooney, whose review of the season led to the dismissal of Bell and team manager Brendan Morris, which in turn triggered the protest resignation of high performance manager Ben Whitaker, said it would make sense for the Reds to tap into the Australian Rugby Union's resources.

"Robbie Deans has always said he wants his assistant coaches out coaching, not sitting in an office," Mooney said.

"I haven't spoken to Robbie about having more access to Jim Williams, but it's good management for the ARU to let their coaches coach."

Williams, who played much of his early club rugby with Mooney at Wests in Brisbane, did some breakdown work with the Reds this season, but the synergy with the Wallabies camp goes way beyond that.

It was evident this season that Mooney was taking the Reds in a direction that dovetailed with what Deans was trying to do with the Wallabies.

If nothing else, the Reds' failures highlighted why Deans places such a heavy emphasis on individual skills and unstinting commitment to the team cause.

Mooney promised to consult his senior players before making any new coaching appointments, specifically indicating he would be talking over the situation with his playmaker, Berrick Barnes.

Barnes still has not recommitted to the Reds for 2010, insisting he wanted to let the review run its course before deciding on his playing future.

Similarly, veteran hooker Sean Hardman will delay his decision on whether to retire or give the Reds one more season, depending on the direction Mooney intends to take the Queensland side.

Barnes admitted the reticence he and Hardman were showing, coming on top of Rocky Elsom's decision to extricate himself from what he saw developing into an unhappy situation with the Reds, did not send "the right message" to Queensland supporters.

"But I've been there four years now and I have to somewhat look after myself in this sort of situation," Barnes said in Melbourne, on the eve of the second Test against Italy.

"It's an important time in my career. I just want to look at where they're going and if that's a direction where I'm comfortable they can make some inroads, I'd love to be a part of it.

"You know how much I love Queensland. It would have to be a hell of a lot for me to go."

Mooney, already buoyed by winger Digby Ioane's decision to recommit to the Reds, is hopeful that Barnes will follow suit.

"I'm certainly confident that Berrick will want to stay once we've had a chance to talk," Mooney said.

Certainly if the Reds secure both Barnes and Ioane, it would boost their chances of luring Test fullback James O'Connor, 18, back to his native Queensland.

Snaring O'Connor would mean the Reds could field an all-Australian backline next season, save for halfback Will Genia, who surely would have been in the current Test squad had he not required hand surgery that put him out for four months.

Western Force played its trump card in its bid to retain O'Connor, announcing that World Cup-winning Springbok five-eighth Andre Pretorius would join the Perth team next season as its marquee international.

O'Connor has been deferring his decision on whether to stay in Perth until the Force secured a replacement playmaker to fill the shoes of Brumbies-bound Matt Giteau, and it's safe to say Pretorius should provide reassurance to the youngster.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
considering the players had a big input into the review, i imagine they would support the cleanout..

as long as it pays dividends
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Ash said:
Wonder if the players think the cleanout is a good or bad thing? I'm sure they surely would've wanted some board members to fall on their sword too.

When is the Queensland rugby community going to call the QRU executive to account? Or, preferably, tell them to bugger off.
 

Aussie D

Dick Tooth (41)
Bubba Ryan doesn't have a full-time coaching gig at the moment and the Reds could do with some mongrel up front which is what he would teach them.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
well, i guess if we look past all the media reports there is certainly light at the end of the tunnel, the Reds have so far managed to retain the majority of there squad, whilst still waiting on the confirmation of a few players(barnes, ioane and hardman). It will be the first time in many years that the Reds havent had significant turnover.

Yeah McMenimen is a loss, but in a more realistic sense he was missing more often then not
 

eddo

Larry Dwyer (12)
wow.. that would be quite the scoop for a team with no recruitment officer anymore.

can't help with any confirmation though.
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
Rugby eNews said:
In rather disconcerting news for Queensland Reds fans, James O’Connor has revealed that he was considering a return to Queensland but that a lack of interest from the Reds was forthcoming.
“It was definitely a good option to think about going home,” O’Connor said. Queensland is believed to have recently sought to rectify the situation and lure O’Connor to the Reds but the move has come too late.
The Reds’ failure to adequately pursue O’Connor, who was born and raised on the Gold Coast, is puzzling to say the least. Berrick Barnes and Digby Ioane are yet to commit to next season, following an end of season review, and O’Connor’s acquisition would have significantly bolstered the Reds’ playing stocks. Furthermore, prying O’Connor away from the Western Force would have been a significant coup against a team which has plundered significant Queensland talent over its tenure.
Instead, O’Connor is expected to announce a new two-year deal with the Force next week. While the teenage sensation maintains he hasn’t actually re-signed with the Perth-based outfit, it is understood that he has committed his future to the Force and that the Australian Rugby Union “top-up” on O’Connor’s Super 14 contract is the only remaining issue to be resolved.
It’s potentially an interesting sticking point. There is no question that O’Connor is a prodigious talent but he is young and remains unproven against the best test nations. His three test caps have all come against Italy. What value, then, should the ARU attribute to raw talent? Most would agree that O’Connor is bound for an illustrious test-playing future but potential is not the same as proven quality.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
There do appear to have been some recruiting fuck-ups in 2009 (Brown, Tomane, Elsom, Chapman, Rabbit). It seems hard to blame the heavies for this - at first glance it seems like brother-of-singer is the man responsible, and he's now gone. But for all we know, he was acting on instructions from the higher ups.

Mooney is confusing me as a coach: he's chosen a high risk spin it wide strategy, and its not come off, as a rule. On the other hand, you get the feeling if things click, the Reds will be devastating. Its the clicking bit, which is largely in the players heads, which is the issue.

Of more relevance to the point above, is the degree to which Mooney is making recruitment decisions. Fair enough he should have a say in the players he wants, since it is his neck on the line. But is he involved in the process? Is he a good judge of talent (ie, the Faingaas)? He has the squad he wants now, and he let go some players I would have kept, holding all else equal.

Player power is a fine line to walk too - for all it led to 2004 success at the Brumbies, was it good for the Brumbies longer term - ie over the next few years?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
On this weeks clubrugby podcast Tirinui talks about the style chosen by the Reds as an attempt to cover up weaknesses in the Reds cattle ( I assume their forwards)
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
See, I actually think that the Reds have a pretty good pack, at least with ball in hand - Holmes, Horwill, MMM, Higgy, Houston, even Van the Man can run a bit. Maybe he means Bell was not up to teaching rucking and mauling - despite the Reds having both Braid and former Highlander Taylor in the pack, they would go missing at ruck time occasionally.

Fuck.

It just hit me. You have to have a surname starting with H to be assured a run on spot in the reds pack.

Holmes
Hardman

Weeks
Horwill
Humphries
Higginbotham

Braid
Houston

No wonder Rocky wasn't interested.
 
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