R3 - Reds vs. Crusaders - Suncorp

[Brumby Runner]

For his height, he is quite light. No impact. Should never have started. Tui back to lock, and a more dynamic player into the backrow (Higs/Timu)

I agree that he ought not yet be starting, but to his credit he is hitting most of his tackles with a bit of ferocity that has never been part of Simmons' armory. I compare him to Rob because they look and play so similarly, and both have been heralded as the next big lock in their early days at the Reds.

 

[fatprop]

FP I’m interested in your experience here, but doesn’t this rolling in have anything g to do with the boring in by the opponent?

Yep, every good prop tries it, but THPs on top of their game gets amused and counters the move

Scrummaging is three dimensional chess while wrestling

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yep, every good prop tries it, but THPs on top of their game gets amused and counters the move

Scrummaging is three dimensional chess while wrestling

Greta description FP. Probably accounts for what a lot of fans see as inconsistent or unfair officiating by the ref. Seems to me that most refs have their favourite areas that they concentrate on and if that is going against one team's usual performance it is up to that team to adjust.

 

[gel]

Did the Crusaders not indicate it was a HIA, because Hunt obviously had no idea where he was when they took him off. I actually thought it was Reds support team on sideline got stuck into the young ref that was doing the subs that made him call Mounga off.

I thought the HIA officiating was ok, just you have to realise that the young officials were against a pretty experienced couple of reds support team who looked to me to get on top off them.

So all good imo.

 

[dru]

Yep, every good prop tries it, but THPs on top of their game gets amused and counters the move

Scrummaging is three dimensional chess while wrestling

So it still comes back to the interpretation. In my book if a penalty is to be given it would start with the bloke who initiated kidology and finish with the the bloke who face-planted (or popped) first. What am I missing?

 

[Adam84]

Don’t have time to watch all the scrums again, but it was clear from the first scrum that the Ref was only looking at Tupou, probably had something to do with the discussions that the Crusaders had with the Referee about him during the week, funny that..

Just looking at the first scrum, Tupou penalised for collapsing which he did indeed to, you can see he dropped his shoulder and collapsed because he was at risk of been popped Up from Moody boring in, boring in was at such an angle they left enough space for one of locks join the front row. Its a battle of who can cheat and manipulate the referee the best, and unfortunately for Tupou the Crusaders were on top of him before the whistle even blew.

 

[Up the Guts]

Greta description FP. Probably accounts for what a lot of fans see as inconsistent or unfair officiating by the ref. Seems to me that most refs have their favourite areas that they concentrate on and if that is going against one team's usual performance it is up to that team to adjust.

This seems a crap way to officiate but agree it does seem you have to play the referee’s interpretation of the laws—something that more experienced props are probably better at dealing with. If JP Smith had the experience of Moody he would have known you elbow defenders in the throat when obstructing them rather than lightly touching them.

 

[Dan54]

I thought the HIA officiating was ok, just you have to realise that the young officials were against a pretty experienced couple of reds support team who looked to me to get on top off them.

So all good imo.

Couldn't agree more gel, no problem as you said and I noticed the Reds support team seemed to of got the better of the pretty young ref doing subs, no damage done and I sure the young fella will learn as all young fellas whether refs or players do!

 

[Dan54]

FP I’m interested in your experience here, but doesn’t this rolling in have anything g to do with the boring in by the opponent?

Rolling in can be cuased by just getting done by opponent and you don't have straight stance, a lot of props that move a lot have same problem. But can also be caused by boring in, and as this a Australian forum we probably have to assume the latter is the case.

 

[dru]

Rolling in can be cuased by just getting done by opponent and you don't have straight stance, a lot of props that move a lot have same problem. But can also be caused by boring in, and as this a Australian forum we probably have to assume the latter is the case.

Thee’s no need to assume. Watch the scrums. Tupou was straight throughout, the Kiwi not.

OK, OK, you set the tone I will take it up. Correction, the dirty cheating Kiwi - not. ;-)

 

[upthereds#!]

I agree that he ought not yet be starting, but to his credit he is hitting most of his tackles with a bit of ferocity that has never been part of Simmons' armory. I compare him to Rob because they look and play so similarly, and both have been heralded as the next big lock in their early days at the Reds.

Hanigan plays ferociously also, but unfortunately, physiology is not on their side. Hockings is 206 cm, closer to Arnold then to Simmons. Hockings is just too ... lanky. Watch him around the field, he is fit and industrious but is slow, slow feet, weak drive, weak impact.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Looks like the confusion was that the player didn't in fact have an HIA. He was knocked out so was taken straight off without the formal assessment. To complicate things he also injured another body part in the same incident.

I imagine there was a fair bit of misinterpreted conversation on the sidelines.

EDIT: if the guy policing substitutions doesn't know that a player who's been knocked unconscious can be replaced by a player previously subbed tactically then he should'nt be the guy policing substitutions.

Another entry for my log of things I'd like to see happen with the situation reversed then tally the people on here who blow up about it.

 

[TSR]

My take -
The Good
- I expected the Crusaders to win by more so. Form said they should win everyday, and they did. So while I don’t like being 0-2, glad this game is out of the way
- Given the possession stats, I thought conceding 22 is reasonable. Many teams would have conceded more
- a few people noted the Crusaders were below their best. I thought a decent part of that was due to pressure from the Reds defence
- there were a few times when we did make some inroads in attack when we got front foot ball
- The Smith’s, Higgers & McDermott were all good off the bench

The Bad
- our kicking strategy isn’t working. I was interested that the commentators said Ryan was yelling at them to hold the ball from the sideline.
- I’m confused with what they are doing with Stewart and I am not sure if it is a good thing for him. He seemed almost to not have a role in attack. If he is not considered up to it, I wonder if Thorn will end up starting Lucas at 15.
- Mafi needs to nail his throws. At the moment we’re struggling to maintain pressure in the last 20
- Our ball security needs to improve. Being able to offload is fine/necessary but it needs to be done well. Big fan of Timu, but he is a serial offender
- losing Petaia was a blow.

Unfortunately we can’t blame the ref for much IMO. On another day, we might have got a few of those scrum calls our way & I do wish that it was as a Red card for the 9 when the deliberately through the ball into a runner - but the calls didn’t & it isn’t (and if it was I would no doubt be cursing all the lazy runners). At the end of the day, dominant teams tend to get the rub with the refs and those decisions came off the back of Crusaders pressure.

I also have no problem with JP Smith for being penalised for obstruction - however I will say that such interference with defenders is done cycnically across the comp, and generally a lot more blatantly than that one was. I would welcome the refs taking a much more stringent stance on it, particularly the habit of belting guys off the ball and/or blockers deliberately making contact with defenders.

 

[wamberal]

The Saders were a class above, unfortunately. Then again, they are a class above most of the teams in the comp, frankly.


I was impressed with Higginbum's attitude when he came on. Oh, if only we could turn the clock back, and if only he had played with this sort of intent way back then.


I wonder how good Tupou is in the set pieces. He was a sensation for his running, not his scrummaging, after all. (Hard to imagine anybody being feted in Australia for their scrum work, though.)


There are some good signs, but losing Petaia for an extended period would be a cruel blow.

 

[TSR]

Tupou was generally excellent in scrums last year and was able to be dominant against some very well credentialled opposition. However he is still young and will still get found out by skilful opponents at times and he was against a very experienced guy last night.

I did think he was unlucky at times - but I didn’t think it was clear cut either way. Personally I’m confident he’ll be fine.

 

[KOB1987]

Yep. Sorovi's passing was very reminiscent of Nick Phipps last night. Mostly not on the mark.

Powell is definitely the best understudy for Genia at present

He doesn't have a lot of impact for his size, even when it's the whole of his body weight. But I am starting to think he will be more effective that Rob Simmons (his doppelganger) as he matures.

Rory Arnold is definitely the most talented lock in the world

That's how I saw it too. Reds scrum was disappointing until the Smiths came on and then it was mostly on top.

Ex-Brumbies props are certainly the best, even if they are actually Saffers

 

[Up the Guts]

EDIT: if the guy policing substitutions doesn't know that a player who's been knocked unconscious can be replaced by a player previously subbed tactically then he should'nt be the guy policing substitutions.

Another entry for my log of things I'd like to see happen with the situation reversed then tally the people on here who blow up about it.

I think most people agree it was the wrong decision, even if the officials had been right I would have preferred it have been 15 on 15 as I said at the time. I’m not sure you’re going to find Reds supporters blowing up about something on behalf of the opposition, however.

 

[Silverado]

That's how I saw it too. Reds scrum was disappointing until the Smiths came on and then it was mostly on top.

True (except for the first scrum for JP at 55 mins when Reds a man down) but the Smith's didn't have to pack down against a fresh Moody and Frank's, so at best they were better finishers than the Sader FR

 

[Gnostic]

A disappointing game from the Reds. No need to re-hash the individua moments or what some would like to see as contentious calls.

For mine the Reds lost this game in their errors which the Crusaders eagerly capitalised on. They took the worst parts of their game last week and repeated those parts again and again. The few wayward passes from Sorovi from last week because far more common, the 2 incontestable and generally poor kicks of last week because nearly every kick from hand this week. The last factor being in my mind a key factor in the loss. The we add in seriously poor technique and thinking from Caleb Timu in low percentage offloads on at least three occasions when chasing the game in the second half and its good night Suzie.

The injuries don't help but the really elite sides deal with those things and are able to cover them.

Those points made, the Reds defended very well in spite of the woeful kicking. There is still plenty to like about this Reds side and how they are playing the game. Get rid of the shit kicking, but keep kicking its an integral part of the game, just need to execute better.

 

[dru]

Another entry for my log of things I'd like to see happen with the situation reversed then tally the people on here who blow up about it.

Jezus WOB do you ever stop. Mate, you've got to find a better hobby than this. If you can't work out yourself why Aus rugby fans can be frustrated by Kiwi teams, I don't know how to pull that together for you.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure my views do not change in reverse. Though this does not stop a great frustration with Kiwi thoughts on Australian rugby. As you know.

You? What do you think about things in reverse, yourself? Completely vanilla? Really?