Rd 12: Bulls vs Waratahs @ Loftus. 11pm Saturday AEST

[Braveheart81]

Do or die for the Waratahs now. They stuffed the game against the Sharks with a red card and a generally lucklustre performance and then missed an easy bonus point after the siren. They now face the Bulls at Loftus which will be incredibly hard to win.

With a tough draw to come they simply have to win games like this if they want to make the finals.

 

[Hawko]

Do or die for the Waratahs now. They stuffed the game against the Sharks with a red card and a generally lucklustre performance and then missed an easy bonus point after the siren. They now face the Bulls at Loftus which will be incredibly hard to win.

With a tough draw to come they simply have to win games like this if they want to make the finals.

Since they imploded against the Sharks, they have to win both games in SA. I thought it was quite obvious that the Sharks were the most likely winners, despite playing poorly themselves. That was long before the red card! I doubt if one forward consistently breached the gainline for the Tahs - no one was playing with power applied at the weak points, The template to play the Tahs is clearly established and that's how the Bulls and Lions will play it.

So I doubt we will win either game and that's the season gone. Wasn't giving Gibson another season as HC a brilliant decision before a game was even played in 2019? His gameplan has worked brilliantly once, but spluttered along every other week.

Does anyone see a different outcome for the next fortnight? The season has been a basket case since round 7 and to turn it around we have to win two games in consecutive weeks on the high veldt. Ain't gonna happen!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Bulls: 15 Warrick Gelant, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Johnny Kotze, 12 Burger Odendaal, 11 Rosko Specman, 10 Handré Pollard (captain), 9 Ivan van Zyl, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Hanro Liebenberg, 6 Marco van Staden, 5 RG Snyman, 4 Jannes Kirsten, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Jaco Visagie, 1 Lizo Gqoboka. Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Wiehahn Herbst, 19 Thembelani Bholi, 20 Paul Schoeman, 21 Andre Warner, 22 Manie Libbok, 23 Dylan Sage.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Sup...-backline-changes-for-waratahs-visit-20190501

 

[Braveheart81]

So I doubt we will win either game and that's the season gone. Wasn't giving Gibson another season as HC a brilliant decision before a game was even played in 2019? His gameplan has worked brilliantly once, but spluttered along every other week.

We're an average side. There's no two ways about it. You'd argue that on paper we're at best the equal second best Australian side with the Brumbies and that puts you well down the Super Rugby table historically.

I still don't think reappointing Gibson for one more year was a bad idea. I don't think anyone else was ready.

I also don't think you have the luxury of delaying that decision by much. Running an obvious search to replace the coach during the season is clearly disruptive and likewise, thinking you can wait until halfway through the season to make a better informed decision probably doesn't leave you with anymore options apart from reappointing the coach or looking through a smaller list of potential replacements.

If Foley had kicked two more goals (Hurricanes and Sharks) we'd have 4 more competition points and be sitting equal first in the conference and Gibson's performance would be slightly above expectation to this point of the season.

 

[Derpus]

Foley shanking that winner in front of a full house at Brooky set the tone for the season.

 

[Braveheart81]

Foley shanking that winner in front of a full house at Brooky set the tone for the season.

I feel like you can tell when he's going to miss those shots. I haven't reviewed to confirm but it felt like he spent significantly longer standing at the top of his mark before taking the conversion against the Sharks and I think did the same against the Hurricanes.

Process is absolutely critical for most goal kickers particularly those who aren't natural freaks (Hayden Parker). If your timings are different then clearly your process isn't the same which is the whole idea of having the process to begin with.

 

[Braveheart81]

Lots of changes, most of them forced for the Tahs.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I feel like you can tell when he's going to miss those shots. I haven't reviewed to confirm but it felt like he spent significantly longer standing at the top of his mark before taking the conversion against the Sharks and I think did the same against the Hurricanes.

Process is absolutely critical for most goal kickers particularly those who aren't natural freaks (Hayden Parker). If your timings are different then clearly your process isn't the same which is the whole idea of having the process to begin with.

Still one of the best goal kickers I have seen.

Did manage a nice kick to get the Tahs a maiden title.

Think that kick on Saturday went astray because the charge down was good and took him by surprise.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Vermeulen v. Hanigan?

 

[Blackadder]

We're an average side. There's no two ways about it. You'd argue that on paper we're at best the equal second best Australian side with the Brumbies and that puts you well down the Super Rugby table historically.



I still don't think reappointing Gibson for one more year was a bad idea. I don't think anyone else was ready.



I also don't think you have the luxury of delaying that decision by much. Running an obvious search to replace the coach during the season is clearly disruptive and likewise, thinking you can wait until halfway through the season to make a better informed decision probably doesn't leave you with anymore options apart from reappointing the coach or looking through a smaller list of potential replacements.



If Foley had kicked two more goals (Hurricanes and Sharks) we'd have 4 more competition points and be sitting equal first in the conference and Gibson's performance would be slightly above expectation to this point of the season.

If the Tahs are an average side someone had better contact the ARU and Cheika to not pick all the Wallabies getting top ups.

The Tahs are a poorly coached side with a head coach who has been too long as head coach. He won't change his pointless game plan and team structure especially in the forwards.

Gibson should not have been given another year, simple.

There are plenty of experienced players and wallabies in the squad which makes the results even worse so far.

In saying that I really hope the Tahs pull off some miracles and win the next few games

 

[Braveheart81]

If the Tahs are an average side someone had better contact the ARU and Cheika to not pick all the Wallabies getting top ups.

The Tahs are a poorly coached side with a head coach who has been too long as head coach. He won't change his pointless game plan and team structure especially in the forwards.

Gibson should not have been given another year, simple.

There are plenty of experienced players and wallabies in the squad which makes the results even worse so far.

In saying that I really hope the Tahs pull off some miracles and win the next few games

There are lots of test players in every team in the competition. Saying we have lots of Wallabies is fairly meaningless. We're currently ranked below both NZ and South Africa and few would argue we've got the best roster of the Australian teams.

Obviously there have been some bad results this year (particularly the Sunwolves).

 

[Blackadder]

There are lots of test players in every team in the competition. Saying we have lots of Wallabies is fairly meaningless. We're currently ranked below both NZ and South Africa and few would argue we've got the best roster of the Australian teams.



Obviously there have been some bad results this year (particularly the Sunwolves).

It's not meaningless it's a fact. The Tahs have Wallabies and have experienced players but not the results.

So I guess Foley, Beale, Kepu, Adam Ashley Cooper etc aren't good enough aren't experienced enough and didn't play in successful seasons under Cheika and for the wallabies??

If we don't have the best roster than who's fault is that???

 

[Braveheart81]

It's not meaningless it's a fact. The Tahs have Wallabies and have experienced players but not the results.

So I guess Foley, Beale, Kepu, Adam Ashley Cooper etc aren't good enough aren't experienced enough and didn't play in successful seasons under Cheika and for the wallabies??

If we don't have the best roster than who's fault is that???

How would you rank the Australian sides in terms of playing rosters? I'd rank us equal second with the Brumbies. They have better forwards and we have better backs. I think the Rebels have the strongest squad and the Reds the weakest.

Should the expectation always be that we have the strongest squad otherwise the coach has failed? Does the same apply to the other teams?

Now where would you rank the Australian players relative to the New Zealanders and South Africans? Does having experienced Wallabies trump experienced All Blacks and Springboks? Then there's the Argentinian players whilst being a weaker test team have a more concentrated selection of their best players in the Jaguares.

I'm curious where you saw the Waratahs sitting before the season started. Did you think we should have been one of the best couple of teams in the comp?

If you look at the results this season we've lost two games we were favourites in (Sunwolves and Sharks), won one game we were underdogs (Crusaders) and won one game we were even money with (Rebels). Otherwise we have won games we were the favourite in and lost games we were the underdog. I would say we have performed just under expectations on that basis.

 

[Ulrich]

The Bulls have lost two on the trot and they are finally back home. I suspect they will be a bit tough to beat if their forwards pitch. The Lions on the other hand could well be beaten. They are not their former selves lately and the Waratahs will have acclimatised to the altitude by then.

 

[Froggy]

I don't get this argument that the Tahs are 'the best side on paper'.
At this moment, there are only two Tahs likely to be in the run-on Wallabies side (Foley & Hooper) and neither of them will be there if you take any notice of half the posters on this site. Then maybe (and only maybe) Simmons, Kepu, Phipps and Hunt on the bench, but again none of them are any better than a 50% chance. I am a rabid Tahs fan, but I get a bit sick of the 'they should be winning because they are stacked with Wallabies' talk.
Contrast that with say the Brumbies, with Sio, Faainga, Ala'alatoa, Arnold, Pocock and Kuridrani all likely starters, and Slipper, Powell and Banks all realistic chances for the bench, it makes some of these claims pretty unrealistic.

 

[Ulrich]

I don't get this argument that the Tahs are 'the best side on paper'.
At this moment, there are only two Tahs likely to be in the run-on Wallabies side (Foley & Hooper) and neither of them will be there if you take any notice of half the posters on this site. Then maybe (and only maybe) Simmons, Kepu, Phipps and Hunt on the bench, but again none of them are any better than a 50% chance. I am a rabid Tahs fan, but I get a bit sick of the 'they should be winning because they are stacked with Wallabies' talk.
Contrast that with say the Brumbies, with Sio, Faainga, Ala'alatoa, Arnold, Pocock and Kuridrani all likely starters, and Slipper, Powell and Banks all realistic chances for the bench, it makes some of these claims pretty unrealistic.

Sometimes, just sometimes, experience counts for more. In a world cup year it certainly does for the Wallabies.

There are a lot of good players.

I used to punt every SA player for example. SP Marais of the Stormers was one not too long ago (2-3) years ago. I have realised he is no better than average at best.

Sometimes as spectators we do not realise the intricacies such as current ability v potential ability and also what it would take to get the potential ability out of said player.

Furthermore, as Jake White recently announced on alloutrugby.com, we do not realise that every rugby player is a person, and some of them may be c*nts, or they may not even like one another. It takes a lot more than just game plans and all of that. If I don't like you it's hard for us to play together even though we may love the same team since we have grown up.

Even if you suspect ability, you may be completely wrong too.

Coaches get it wrong all the time. It does not make them bad people or bad coaches. It is a tough and thankless job and you better be willing to have your kids ridiculed at school (in SA anyway) if you are a coach.

Jake for example mentioned the accomplishment he felt when he brought a nation of varying ethnicities together and how much of a challenge it was. Do not for one moment think it is really any easier in any other country. Maybe only very slightly easier, and that only to someone who knows the landscape in the country.

It is incredibly difficult for a foreign coach to mastermind a RWC challenge based on my readings and observations - even more so if there are natural language barriers.

That is probably the reason we are not likely to see a foreign forwards / lineouts coach in SA any time soon (same for France I would imagine). Calls are taught in Afrikaans from grade 1.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Tahs started well. Then a try and a goal against the run of play

 

[The Honey Badger]

Good play by Phipps to pull it back. Back to 3 point game

 

[A mutterer]

ffs phipps

 

[The Honey Badger]

You would expect a good wing to make that tackle