Rebels 2015

[Train Without a Station]

en_force_er, as a bloke has played a bit of Dewar Shield, I'd say yes. There was nobody local worthy of an opportunity. As long as blokes can come straight in from NZ, NSW and QLD and dominate that level, there will be minimal locals who are. As I noted, the best Dewar Shield players are rejects from those 3 areas already and also generally over 25.

But you also have to be realistic, and realise that the players that may be ready, may also not play in the position you need. The best Dewar Shield players for each team are their loosies and their centres. These are the positions where the Rebels have the strongest depth. You think it might be worth dropping Inman, Ellison or maybe Higgers to give a local a go? I'd suggest not.

 

[Athilnaur]

After a promising closure to 13 it was with grave misgivings I pondered the Pulver and Co appointment of McGahan. It had smacked of boardroom cost shifting and I felt Hill had deserved another year but the decision was done.

Our win over the Cheetahs gave hope, but it has since been trudged into the mud. As a fan I hope I am wrong and McGahan will turn it around, but my read is that he has killed the culture. I say this purely based on surprises such as the results, Higger's form, and the (mis) handling of Pyle as I have no inside dealings with the club.

Pyle's leaving is a huge disappointment and I'd like to know the drivers behind it.

All that said, the players for 15 are looking good other than the loss of Woodward and the terrible injury to Shippers, a player I believe has a lot of potential.

McGahan has the elements, here's hoping he doesn't screw it up.

 

[jermano]

The biggest issue with Terrible Tony is his ability to not put his best 15 on the park.
A consistent 15 would be ideal. Injuries get in the way of that. The coach making 6 changes after a fantastic victory can only hurt the team. Also the the Non-selection of guys like Pyle and Reid because of form? This sounds more like a professional coach playing favorites.
The Rugby has been dire in the 2nd half of this season, heads down at half time etc. A good coach and captain hold a lot of responsibility here.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Every coach plays favourites. It's rarely personality. They favour certain types of players. There's a reason why Neville was selected for the Wallaby squad previously and Pyle never was. Comes down to the style of play. I'm not extremely shocked to see McGahan not be a huge fan of a loose playing tight forward.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

In 2011 the Rebels finished 15th with 3 wins.
In 2012 the Rebels finished 13th with 4 wins.
In 2013 the Rebels finished 12th with 5 wins.
In 2014 the Rebels are 15th with 4 wins with 1 game remaining but likely to finish on 4 wins.

I'm not sure how it is clearly not acceptable for a coach in their 1st season, to lose one game less than their most successful season ever.

There just seems to be some sort of delusions of grandeur that the Rebels are something much more than a new team that has historically been the cellar dweller they actually are. The fact of the matter is the competition is a lot stronger than it previously has been. In years gone by wins against the Force, the Brumbies and Waratahs have been easier to come by. The fact that this year those 3 are finals contenders and the Reds are the only team out of the race is a significant fact because 1 of your 4 wins have been against them.

I'm not trying to shit all over the Rebels here though, I'm just saying it seems an odd attitude to have that in his first season McGahan's 25% win ratio is consider unacceptable when it's basically the clubs historical average. Certainly I'd like to hope they're aiming for more and if there isn't an improvement to somewhere around 50% next year I doubt McGahan will still be around after that.

I think your "delusions of grandeur" comment is a bit strong but, certainly a lot of us had expectations that 2014 was going to be a better year.

The second half of last season was pretty good. From the last eight games we had three wins and five bonus points with the worst loss being against the ponies in Canberra.

The players we picked up for this year, Ellison, Colby, Smith, Kingston etc were all a step up from the players we lost and, some of the youngsters in the team were improving. Pre-season form looked good, the coaches and players were talking about making a "step change" then, the season started and we gave the Cheetahs a pantsing in round one. Life was peachy back then.

Since then we seem to have gone backwards in just about every department - except for maybe a marginal improvement in defence. Our scrum has been pretty good all year but I reckon that's got less to do with coaching and more about having Smith and Neville packing down (and Weeksy has found form).

A 25% win ratio again this year is disappointing, I think we were all expecting a bit better than that - not miracles but a bit better. What is really fucking disappointing is the way the team have played since round two. We aren't showing signs of improvement, combinations are not coming together, ball retention, handling and discipline are still problems. I really have no idea what the game plan is - other than try not to lose by too much.

I'll be handing over my hard earned again next year for a membership but, to be honest, I don't have much optimism that TT's methods are going to give us the results we're hoping for.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I just think it's not a failure for a coach coming in to not see a stark improvement. In all fairness they hasn't gone backwards, but they haven't improved. A small grace period should be accepted.

When Link took over the Reds, he still had a number of quality and key wallabies in the squad to build around.

Tony has not had that at the Rebels. Now if the stagnation of 2014 does not lead to a significant improvement (As I noted - a winning record) then you could fairly call him a failure.

For all the flak given, the only different between the results under TT compared to Hill has been the form of the other Australian teams.

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Well, if TT does have some special sauce to add next year that would be awesome. I would be rapt with eight wins in 2015.

 

[James Pettifer]

I just think it's not a failure for a coach coming in to not see a stark improvement. In all fairness they hasn't gone backwards, but they haven't improved. A small grace period should be accepted.

When Link took over the Reds, he still had a number of quality and key wallabies in the squad to build around.

Tony has not had that at the Rebels. Now if the stagnation of 2014 does not lead to a significant improvement (As I noted - a winning record) then you could fairly call him a failure.

For all the flak given, the only different between the results under TT compared to Hill has been the form of the other Australian teams.

The form of the Australian teams is not particularly relevant as this year we beat 1 SA team and 3 Aussie teams, last year we beat 1 SA team, 3 Aussie teams (force twice) and 1 NZ team.

However that is just results. In my opinion the team has clearly gone backwards on the field - particularly in attack - (in 2013, the Rebels got 4 bonus points for 4 tries and 5 bonus points for losing by less than 7. This year it is 1 bonus point for 4 tries and 4 bonus points for losing by less than 7).

The overall strategy of the team seems confused. In the home game against the Brumbies, the team was so clueless in the first half in spending the whole time kicking the ball to Speight and Mogg - giving up possession repeatedly for a 10-15 meter gain isn't getting anyone anywhere. When they started to run in the second half they were a different team. Now I would think TT would have directed them to kick less in the second half but given the whole crowd were screaming at them not to kick for the first half, it isn't exactly rocket science.

TT appears to want to play a kick heavy game but we don't have the distance kickers nor a vaguely decent line out (particularly when Leafa is on) to play that game. He also seems to want the forwards to play tight which has seriously impacted the performance of both Pyle and Higgers. It seems as though he has a strategy in mind but hasn't considered whether he has the right team to execute that strategy.

 

[Train Without a Station]

James, if forwards playing tight has impacted the performance of Pyle, and the line out isn't good enough for a kick heavy game, which would require more defensive line outs, then I'd suggest Pyle just isn't a very good lock.

Doesn't mean he isn't noticeable, or a good rugby player. But as a lock he isn't capable of doing the job required. Probably an indication why he has never played for the Wallabies.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The form of all teams is relevant too.

Those 3 wins against Australian teams have been harder to come by when there's nobody else propping up the bottom of the ladder like the Force have, and there's only one other team outside the top 8.

You need to consider the form of NZ teams also. Last year the Highlanders for example couldn't buy a win, this year they are close to contenders. The Blues are much stronger and the Hurricanes are still a difficult team to beat.

I'm not saying the guy is a great coach. I'm just saying there's reasonable reasons to expect he may not make an immediate improvement.

 

[James Pettifer]

Train, I'd argue the reason Pyle never played for the Wallabies would have been because he was injured towards the end of last season. My recollection was that the common view was that he would go on the EOYT.

Perhaps you are right and next year will be the Rebels best year, but I think most Rebels fans would say that this year has been a step backwards in almost every way both in statistics (wins, number of tries, bonus points, position on the ladder) and on a qualitative nature in how the team has played on the field.

A win against the Bulls this weekend would be a great end to the season and get that first overseas win. But after that we have to be looking forward to 2015. A successful 2015 for me would be 6 wins including an overseas victory. Anything less and you really have to wonder what changing the coach achieved. Of course, I hope for topping the Australian conference and having the GF at AAMI park ...

 

[Scooter]

In the article on Rebels website announcing our team it says it is the last game for Pyle, Woodward and Rokobaro. But it doesn't say anything about Foketi. Is him leaving official? Is it happening?

 

[Highlander35]

In the article on Rebels website announcing our team it says it is the last game for Pyle, Woodward and Rokobaro. But it doesn't say anything about Foketi. Is him leaving official? Is it happening?

http://www.abrugby.fr/actu/detail.aspx?NUM_ACTU=4587

 

[Scooter]

Thanks Highlander35.

 

[swingpass]

well we might be unhappy but have a geek at the Reds 2014/2015 threads for some real ire.
very similar themes regarding the coaching "effect" on the playing group.
and striking similarities in the fatuous replies trotted out in the post match "pressers".
roll on the "rising"

 

[Ado Tornado]

Anyone up for the idea of Inman of transitioning to 6 ala Jim Williams? Personally I think he would make a red hot big ball carrying back rower. Ellison and Sau need to be the centre pairing next year. We certainly need more size and penetration up front. We got a stack of 7's but buggering depth elsewhere in the pack.

 

[Ado Tornado]

"Bugger all" Sorry.

 

[Hoolly Doolly]

Anyone up for the idea of Inman of transitioning to 6 ala Jim Williams? Personally I think he would make a red hot big ball carrying back rower. Ellison and Sau need to be the centre pairing next year. We certainly need more size and penetration up front. We got a stack of 7's but buggering depth elsewhere in the pack.

This year I would have stuck with a combo of neville/pyle in the second row and jones, mcmahon/Fainga'a and higgers as the loosies. Thats a quality pack of forwards imo. A bit of patience and consistency and I honestly think 2015 will be a break out season for the rebels.

 

[en_force_er]

Anyone up for the idea of Inman of transitioning to 6 ala Jim Williams? Personally I think he would make a red hot big ball carrying back rower. Ellison and Sau need to be the centre pairing next year. We certainly need more size and penetration up front. We got a stack of 7's but buggering depth elsewhere in the pack.

It's not the worst idea but it won't happen.

His skills would transition cleanly but he'd have to completely change the way he approaches the game of rugby.

It'd represent a massive risk to his livelihood in the professional era too, especially since he's a good enough centre to be offered plenty of money to play overseas and he's been invited to train with the Wallabies often (though I don't think he's been a 'squad member').

 

[oztimmay]

It's not the worst idea but it won't happen.

His skills would transition cleanly but he'd have to completely change the way he approaches the game of rugby.

It'd represent a massive risk to his livelihood in the professional era too, especially since he's a good enough centre to be offered plenty of money to play overseas and he's been invited to train with the Wallabies often (though I don't think he's been a 'squad member').

Think he toured as a squad member on the EOYT 2012 with Caydern Neville.

Think he had to take one look at the backlog of loose forwards we have, but I guess at the same time we've now got a influx of outside backs that can wear 12/13. Tamati, Mikey Mike, Engo and even Kingston if his knee gets right.