Rebels 2017

[amirite]

BUT.the Rebels now have two failed 10's and a couple of learners.

Jack D is currently the same age as Foley when he started playing Super rugby at 10. Volavola is 25 and played pretty well in a decent WC for Fiji (they were competitive in the pool of death). If this is what failure looks like, then you set a pretty tall order.

No super rugby team has ever won without a good 10, but not all of those 10s were considered good before the season started. For example, I don't think anyone was shipping Jantjies too hard before last year, Quade and Sopoanga also had plenty of question marks over them before break-out seasons.

The interesting conundrum for the Rebels is what the team looks like from here. They have a squad rich in quality utility players, but lack some specialists such as at 15, 6, and a set-piece lock. To Hawko's credit, perhaps we could have used a more established 10 too.

I, for one, do not think starting Volavola at 15 is the answer because with Hodge at 12 and Jack D at 10, we just don't lack for distributors. Tom English looked good there for patches in the NRC and I wouldn't mind seeing him there.

All interesting thoughts. Can't wait to see what TT does.

 

[Hawko]

Jack D is currently the same age as Foley when he started playing Super rugby at 10. Volavola is 25 and played pretty well in a decent WC for Fiji (they were competitive in the pool of death). If this is what failure looks like, then you set a pretty tall order.

Perhaps I should expand a little on my reasoning. Foley came to 10 at the Tahs late after a year at 15 to learn his apples. I personally would have pushed him up earlier, but I wasn't and won't ever be the coach, and it turned out pretty well in the end.

Debreczini has now had three years at 10, I think. His second half of the season last year was probably the worst form I have seen from him. He is not, to my eyes, on the upswing. Maybe he'll come out swinging this year and prove me wrong but the signs are not good.

Volavola has been discarded by the coaches at two clubs now, the Tahs and the Saders. To me, he has always looked flaky; ie he does some good things and then ruins it with a howler. After watching Fiji in the pool of death, I saw nothing to change my opinion.

 

[dru]

Rebels are not my team. And they are not my B team either (that would be the Bulls). But I'm kind of partial to an effective, competitive Rebels. And I like very much Vola added to this team. Selection conundrums? Good thing I think.

 

[upthereds#!]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddocks play 15 more often then not. He is the rookie but he was hot property for a youngster and has the size and speed to back it up. However I would be less confident with him there if you went with power wingers in Koroibete and Naivalu together with a rookie 15. For that reason I think we will always see ships or english on the wing, and unfortunately see very little of Fou.

Fou would have got a lot more chances back home in Qld over the likes of Maranta and C. Kuridrani.

9. Stirzaker 10. Debrazcini 11. Shipperly 12. Hodge 13. English 14. Naivalu 15. Maddocks

21. Meehan 22. VolaVola 23. Koroibete

 

[wamberal]

Jack D just looks too cumbersome for a 10, IMHO. I find it difficult to believe that Koriobete will not be in the starting XV.

 

[Highlander35]

My reckoning is that we'll see something like this to start the season:

9. Stirzaker, 10. JD, 11. English/Koroibete, 12. Hodge, 13. Inman, 14. Sefa/English, 15. Volavola

22. Meehan, 23. Koroibete/Sefa/English

And we'll play 6 forwards on the bench so we get all 3 "opensides" (McMahon, Colby and Reid) as well as having Mafi and Timani in the back row.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

My reckoning is that we'll see something like this to start the season:

9. Stirzaker, 10. JD, 11. English/Koroibete, 12. Hodge, 13. Inman, 14. Sefa/English, 15. Volavola

22. Meehan, 23. Koroibete/Sefa/English

And we'll play 6 forwards on the bench so we get all 3 "opensides" (McMahon, Colby and Reid) as well as having Mafi and Timani in the back row.

I see no one is figuring Placid in there. Had his chance?

 

[amirite]

Perhaps I should expand a little on my reasoning. Foley came to 10 at the Tahs late after a year at 15 to learn his apples. I personally would have pushed him up earlier, but I wasn't and won't ever be the coach, and it turned out pretty well in the end.

Debreczini has now had three years at 10, I think. His second half of the season last year was probably the worst form I have seen from him. He is not, to my eyes, on the upswing. Maybe he'll come out swinging this year and prove me wrong but the signs are not good.

Volavola has been discarded by the coaches at two clubs now, the Tahs and the Saders. To me, he has always looked flaky; ie he does some good things and then ruins it with a howler. After watching Fiji in the pool of death, I saw nothing to change my opinion.

I see your reasoning, and I don't think it's ridiculous or anything, I just don't agree.

Debreczini could turn things around, whilst he's been going the wrong way performance wise, that basically amounts to one bad season. He's a 23yo flyhalf with 3 years of super rugby experience, things aren't so bad for him with around another 10 years of professional rugby (and probably 3-5 of them in which he can show himself to be 'test quality').

As for Volavola, yes he's been 'discarded' but he's still got an upside, he's been part of some great sporting environments and covers a lot of positions. I just hope he wears the 23 jersey and plays the utility role if/when injuries happen.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddocks play 15 more often then not. He is the rookie but he was hot property for a youngster and has the size and speed to back it up. However I would be less confident with him there if you went with power wingers in Koroibete and Naivalu together with a rookie 15. For that reason I think we will always see ships or english on the wing, and unfortunately see very little of Fou.

Fou would have got a lot more chances back home in Qld over the likes of Maranta and C. Kuridrani.

9. Stirzaker 10. Debrazcini 11. Shipperly 12. Hodge 13. English 14. Naivalu 15. Maddocks

21. Meehan 22. VolaVola 23. Koroibete

I wouldn't be surprised to see Maddocks in the 15 by season's end, but without the NRC to cut his teeth IDK if it would be the right call from round 1. It pays to remember how good Mack Mason looked in the U20 WC and how bad he looked in NRC.

I'll also add that I think Shipperly is injured until at least mid-season. Happy to be proved wrong and if he isn't injured, he starts for sure. Maybe even at 15, because with distributors at 10/12 we don't need another there. He looked good there in the NRC after all.

I'd love to see our backline as:
9. Stirzaker 10. Debrezcini 11. Koroibete 12. Hodge 13. Naivalu (attacked at wing but defended at 13 for the Wobs) 14. Fou 15. English

21. Meehan 22. Inman 23. Volavola

I don't expect to see it though.

 

[wamberal]

My reckoning is that we'll see something like this to start the season:

9. Stirzaker, 10. JD, 11. English/Koroibete, 12. Hodge, 13. Inman, 14. Sefa/English, 15. Volavola

22. Meehan, 23. Koroibete/Sefa/English

And we'll play 6 forwards on the bench so we get all 3 "opensides" (McMahon, Colby and Reid) as well as having Mafi and Timani in the back row.

And none of that will matter, unless you have a decent front 5. I have not been reading the whole thread, admittedly. Maybe you have the five most important positions well covered.

 

[amirite]

And none of that will matter, unless you have a decent front 5. I have not been reading the whole thread, admittedly. Maybe you have the five most important positions well covered.

A lot has been made of our front 5, and rightfully so, but things aren't dire yet.

The facts are:

• Any super rugby team would feel comfortable starting Smith at 1. Back-up is questionable, but Ah-nau has done the job before.
• Hanson spends time in the test environment for a reason, he's a good footballer and is well backed up by Pat Leafa.
• Weekes is a good journeyman, and Lomax is damn promising. I see him and AA jostling for a test starting jersey post-WC and perhaps sooner.
• At lock, Slam Jefferies shows every sign of being ready to step up based on improving super form and an excellent NRC. From there, you need to squeeze a good performance out of just one of Cummins, Day, Rettalick, or Toolis. There's even the option to get a bit selfish and play Lopeti there.

On paper, we'll be right. Could go either way in real life.

 

[Highlander35]

And none of that will matter, unless you have a decent front 5. I have not been reading the whole thread, admittedly. Maybe you have the five most important positions well covered.

We were discussing backlines with the signing of Volavola, and the backrow forwards were relevant to the 2 man bench I named.

I think we've got a reasonable set of tight five players. Not amazing by any sense, but should be able to compete with the rest of the Aussie Conference.

Chibbas a quality hooker, as is Toby a Loosehead. Pat is a good backup, and there'll be a good contest between Cruze and Moloney for the reserve Loosehead spot. Tighthead is still a little shaky without PAE, but Weeksy is a more than capable starter, I prefer Metcher over Hagan who was our backup last year, and Lomax has the potential to go from non-starter to Elite real fast, although I'm not realistically hoping for more than 5-8 appearances off the bench in 2016.

Jones is another loss. I like what Jeffries produced late Soup and in the NRC though, Day is a better experienced signing than Retallick and I have high personal expectations of Toolis. His twin has been excellent for Edinburgh, and I think they have a very similar ceiling, just that Ben has been far more consistent. Something that being back in Australia should hopefully fix.

 

[amirite]

Good post Highlander, but don't necessarily agree re: Day.

We actually have a couple of young locks around in preason and I wouldn't be surprised if part of the Day signing is to mentor them into players worth signing come 2018.

 

[wamberal]

Jeffries was amazing defensively in the NPC.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

Jeffries was amazing defensively in the NPC.

NRC

 

[thierry dusautoir]

we don't need another there. He looked good there in the NRC after all.

I'd love to see our backline as:
9. Stirzaker 10. Debrezcini 11. Koroibete 12. Hodge 13. Naivalu (attacked at wing but defended at 13 for the Wobs) 14. Fou 15. English

21. Meehan 22. Inman 23. Volavola

I don't expect to see it though.

Excellent backline however i am concerned about the kicking skills of the back three, I think you would have to slip in Volavola to FB. He was very succesful at FB in his times with southern districts in Sydney

 

[wamberal]

NRC

Just checking to see if anybody is paying attention.

 

[wamberal]

Excellent backline however i am concerned about the kicking skills of the back three, I think you would have to slip in Volavola to FB. He was very succesful at FB in his times with southern districts in Sydney

Who will ever forget that wonderful goal he kicked from the sideline to win a last minute victory at University Oval? Definitely in my top ten favourite Shute Shield moments.

 

[amirite]

Excellent backline however i am concerned about the kicking skills of the back three, I think you would have to slip in Volavola to FB. He was very succesful at FB in his times with southern districts in Sydney

Valid point.

However, I personally don't think it's an issue because you can just push your 10 back in defence. It would probably even be better because English defends well in the line.

I know I say this a lot on the forum, and many people disagree, but most professional teams do it so I'm comfortable saying it.

Also, IDK if Fou can kick. Maybe he can?

 

[Highlander35]

I understand why you feel that way Amirite, and admittedly it's a very tempting one from an attacking perspective.

For mine, Jack has always played best either having the 2nd playmaker at fullback or being the 2nd playmaker at fullback.

And dropping Inman, particularly to fit all 3 of Sefa, Koroibete and Fou into the side fills me with defensive dread. Perhaps unfoundedly so, but I'd want Engo at 11 if Sefa was at 13, and it was Fou/Koroibete over Shippers at 14.

 

[amirite]

Highlander,

I think we need to look less at the jerseys, and more at the roles. Jack D has his 2nd play maker at 12.

Mitch is an excellent defender, and will probably be vastly improved this season. His poor form last year, by his standards, was due to playing WC medical joker in France. He's taken the NRC off, and will be fresh as a daisy. I EXPECT him to start in all honesty.

It's possible Sef, Fou, and Koroibete would have defensive issues, they are 'untried', but it would be a failure at a systems level because their skills in this department are pretty handy. Sefa defended at 13 for the Wallabies very well (with Foley assuming his wing), Fou is an excellent 1V1 defender in the 7-a-side game, and Koroibete has his famous tackle highlight video for the Storm.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical fun. I think we'll actually see:
9. Stirzaker 10. Debrezcini 11. Koroibete 12. Hodge 13. Inman 14. Naivalu 15. Volavola

21. Meehan 22. English 23. Placid

I'll add Tuipulotu is good enough for a bench spot but he's still U20 aged. Unbelievable really, he's one to watch.