Reds 2020

[Ignoto]

So much speculation so I'll jump in with mine. I see a common thread on all the disgruntled personnel issues - Thorn. I never thought he was the right man for the job and absolutely nothing to date has made me change my mind.

If Thorn was an issue, why did Rodda and Lucas both sign long term contracts late last year?

 

[Cancelled Account]

Everyone go have a look at Michael Blucher's post on facebook - absolutely cracking read

(was shared by the everything rugby FB page as well if ya can't find it)

Good read.
Why aren’t the jurnos asking this Picone character, why he’s selected these 3 from the Reds to set off to Japan and not the other 3 players in the Reds. Looking Picone up he seems to have more players overseas than in other Aus teams. This is obviously his business plan. Get the first contract in Aus them get them on a plane for bigger commissions.
These media releases keep saying that Picone says it’s a livelihood decision, but at what expense to the other Aus players he manages. Is he trying to dismantle the Reds without any regard to the other Reds players he manages. Seems to be a bit of short term greed with no foresight for Australia rugby. I get the whole overseas thing when established players are past their peak and are chasing the money, but to get oversea’s offers for young developing players who haven’t made a name for themselves is bloody stupid.
RA need to put a stop to this Picone. Does he even realise that shipping our young talent overseas is affecting the success of RA, the Wallabies, the broadcast deals and the sponsors. He’s inadvertently stripping money out of the game in Australia. I guess he’ll move to Japan to manage players in the coming years. Deadset idiot.

 

[Pfitzy]

So much speculation so I'll jump in with mine. I see a common thread on all the disgruntled personnel issues - Thorn. I never thought he was the right man for the job and absolutely nothing to date has made me change my mind.

The Reds were one of the most promising signs we've had this year, thanks to Thorn ditching bad influences.

So maybe the common factor is Thorn. Maybe it is the attitude of particular players.

Removing Picone from the picture couldn't do anything but help, from the sounds.

 

[Silverado]

Everyone go have a look at Michael Blucher's post on facebook - absolutely cracking read

(was shared by the everything rugby FB page as well if ya can't find it)

Great read. Thanks Here's the link.
https://www.facebook.com/1588003301456729/posts/2656992847891097/

 

[cyclopath]

Great read. Thanks Here's the link.
https://www.facebook.com/1588003301456729/posts/2656992847891097/

Bang on.

 

[TSR]

I’d be interested to know who the players were referred to in the initial anecdote about the school session and, more particularly, what their reaction was when they found out their agent tried to charge them out.

It’s a shame because, in my experience, these young guys are more then happy to give of their time and promote the game.

I wonder if anyone tried to send the QRU an invoice for the ‘Reds to the Regions’ program

 

[Silverado]

I’d be interested to know who the players were referred to in the initial anecdote about the school session and, more particularly, what their reaction was when they found out their agent tried to charge them out.

It’s a shame because, in my experience, these young guys are more then happy to give of their time and promote the game.

I wonder if anyone tried to send the QRU an invoice for the ‘Reds to the Regions’ program

What irks me about the school anecdote is that the manger did SFA to organise the session, but expects a cut. Not a good look if true

 

[Dismal Pillock]

All three are represented by the same manager, a hard nosed commercial operative, who shapes careers but at the same time, is completely anonymous. If his head popped out a scrum in the middle of a Bledisloe Cup test, not one fan would have the faintest idea who he was. He’s works in the shadows.

damn, he is a ghost on google image search. There's a couple of Anthony Picone's but I don't think they're the right guy

I wonder if anyone tried to send the QRU an invoice for the ‘Reds to the Regions’ program

I just separately invoiced GAGR for each and every one of my individual 4,281 posts on this message board.

Frankly, and in all honesty, some of the replies now starting to filter through from Gagger to my accounting requests are bordering on the profane.

 

[qwerty51]

Great read. Thanks Here's the link.
https://www.facebook.com/1588003301456729/posts/2656992847891097/

If this is true, why didn't the players just end up doing the event anyway? Why did it have to get cancelled. The players were reached out initially through communication not involving their managers so that was still there.

 

[The Nomad]

Have heard Michael Blucher speak a few times , very clever and witty guy. His consultancy company “The Third Half” specialises in helping professional athletes navigate into life after sport. He is all about building a brand and controlling and owning your image.

Has worked with quite a few rugby players over the years , was asked to help with QC (Quade Cooper)’s public image post his “laptop fiasco” , so no stranger to tough assignments.

If anyone knows the damage these three lads are doing to their image, it’s Bluch .

Should make all young rugby players sit down and listen to him , preferably without their managers present .

 

[TSR]

A lot of these guys are young blokes though who have never known any better than to trust their manager.

At some point part of growing up is learning personal responsibility & accountability (although I know plenty of 40 & 50 year olds who struggle with both) so I have no real problem with people dumping this back at the feet of the players. If they didn’t already know that they need to take ownership of their decisions, hopefully that message will get driven home.

But it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they are very much being led by their manager and doing pretty much what he tells them. I’ve know lots of people who just want someone else to tell them what the best decision is - and that is without living in the bubble that these guys live in.

Of course, they may be 100% on top of these decisions and have made the choice that this is the best move for them. Clearly Thorn’s approach isn’t going to work for everyone (does any coaches?) - so maybe they just stopped buying what he was selling. I can particularly sympathise with Hockings position - although it would be interesting to know a bit more on the substance behind the contract extension discussions. In 12 months time they might look back and be proven right - who knows. They may purely want different things out of their career then what was being offered at the moment. Good luck to them if that is the case I guess.

But personally I strongly suspect they are being led by the nose.

 

[TSR]

damn, he is a ghost on google image search. There's a couple of Anthony Picone's but I don't think they're the right guyI just separately invoiced GAGR for each and every one of my individual 4,281 posts on this message board.

Frankly, and in all honesty, some of the replies now starting to filter through from Gagger to my accounting requests are bordering on the profane.

Problem is Dismal, I’m not sure that your content will garner the same following and media profile in Japan that you have cultivated here through GAGR.

In short - I think Cyclo has you by the balls and we all know how that ends.

Just take your 60% pay reduction and stay the course like the rest of us.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

In short - I think Cyclo has you by the balls and we all know how that ends.

 

[upthereds#!]

If Thorn was an issue, why did Rodda and Lucas both sign long term contracts late last year?

Coz everyone thought Rodda would be captain, including him, and everyone thought Lucas would be starting 10 with JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, including him.

I'm sure that's a piece of it.

 

[TSR]

Do we know that though? Are we sure we know what was being told to the players?

If they were given the impression that both those things were going to happen then I can 100% understand the players being upset. But Thorn doesn’t strike me as the sort who would try and win guys over with false inducements. If anything, he seems completely the opposite.

 

[Adam84]

The interesting one in that article is how the commission fees for the managers are paid, Japan Rugby pays upfront, Australia pays over the course of the contract.

I wonder if part of this is Picones own self-interest and finances. If the players took a 60% pay cut, then so did he. An upfront bonus certainly helps out that situation for himself.

 

[Silverado]

The interesting one in that article is how the commission fees for the managers are paid, Japan Rugby pays upfront, Australia pays over the course of the contract.

I wonder if part of this is Picones own self-interest and finances. If the players took a 60% pay cut, then so did he. An upfront bonus certainly helps out that situation for himself.

I thought this too. Japanese contracts haven't been cut yet to my knowledge, so would be a huge financial benefit to all 4 in the short term

 

[Rebels3]

From a rugby perspective, the players will lack opportunities in Japan. I’m not 100% on the rules over there but I know there is a maximum amount of foreigners allowed on the field at once, it’s only around 2-3. So teams have 5/6 foreigners and their season is relatively short (only around 12-14 games). A guy like Lucas or Hockings could find themselves only playing a handful of games a year, which at this stage in their career wouldn’t be ideal for development. Don’t be surprised to see them rock up at something like Mitre 10 level and a Japanese contract in the same year just for the game time.

 

[PhilClinton]

A lot of specific hate going to Picone for his business model and I do think it’s a bit unfair. He’s got a large stable of players, primarily based overseas as has been pointed out. He’s probably given more opportunities to blokes who would never have got a look in with an Australian team and let them live their dream of playing professional rugby. I don’t have an issue with that.

What I have an issue with is the manner in which this whole saga with the Reds trio and some other players in similar positions over the past year has gone. If your business model is primary to get overseas contracts, that’s fine, and players would know how this management team operates. But to disrupt the system in this way is unacceptable. Don’t have your blokes commit to 4 year deals and then snake out of them when convenient and essentially call the QRU out for doing the wrong thing. Your guidance and expertise lead them to signing those deals, if you weren’t happy with it or knew the players werent, then you shouldn’t have had them sign.

 

[Double Agent]

This stood out to me in that article -

That said, their manager’s strained relationship with local rugby officials is well established, and underscored by a heated exchange in the QRU Boardroom last last year, where and when he mapped out his vision for the code in Queensland. It wasn’t particularly pretty.

Can anyone shine more light on this - i.e. any idea what his vision was and why an agent even got to present a vision to the board? Inviting the fox into the henhouse. I seem to remember some talk on this forum in the past about an agent who was a very close contact with a former QRU CEO or Chair of the board.. (... was it that the CEO or board member had been on the board of his management co - might be mistaken) .... I assume it's him? If it's been discussed at length apologies, a nod to which thread it's on would be great and I'll go searching.