Reds v Stormers - Super Rugby Round 9, 2012

[andyq]

Re: the Number 8's in emu's table, I'm very surprised to see that Shatz is heavier than both Reid and Spies. Maybe he needs to work on his balance and leg drive in contact to make it look more like he is trampling people?

Back on the Stormers specifically though the Reds will need to play their best rugby by far this year to win with the way the boys from the cape smashed the clan the other night. As others have mentioned need to get in front early and make the Stomers chase points and / or disrupt their lineout so much that they give up on kicking for touch.

As much as I want to see both I can't really imagine either at this point.

Should be a cracker between the Stomers and 'Saders this weekend though, let's hopr that there's enough on show in that game to give the reds a plan to beat both in the next few weeks

 

[What2040]

Gee, I only hope they belt the crap out of each other

 

[hammertimethere]

1. Holmes 6. Higgers
2. Hanson 7. Robinson
3. Slipper 8. Samo (instructed to camp 10 metres either side of the ruck and send Deysel, elstadt, 4. Simmons Liebenberg et. al crashing into the dirt behind the ad. line - he gets 35 to 50)
5. Horwill

9. Genia 11. Shipperly
10. Harris 14. Toua
12. Tapuai 15. Lucas
13. Fainga'a

16. Anae 17. Daley. 18. AWH or Van 19-22. Too hard to figure out
I'm conflicted about the forwards (radike's inclusion) but to be honest i think we need 4 or 5 proper lineout options, or bekker will cover 2 (horwill and higgers) by himself, Etzebeth and/or Elstadt will make short work of the other (simmons) and any potential trick throws to Gilly/beau will be long odds to come off (unless we dig out the the old throw it to Will at the front call from when we played this mob in 2010).
We've all been moaning about how Moz etc. seemed ready for a big year and are now playing like shit (defensively especially), therefore I say fuck it, lets play 2 accomplished fullbacks (one the most dazzling counterattacker going around up here, and one an alternative distributer) who both have shown themselves to be excellent defenders.

Our ability to attack first phase won't probably win us this game, even if it does fire on all cylinders (which it likely wont). Links tactical brilliance (old tricks from 2010?), (hopefully) vicious defence and opportunistic counter rucking, counter attack from wayward kicks and astute tactical kicking of our own possibly could if all done well.

The bench could be a number of permutations depending on 4/3 or 5/2 split (link will probably go 5/2)

 

[spectator]

It's going to be very interesting to see the Reds side selected and the game plan for this game. Judging by the performance against the Crusaders there are not a lot of weak areas to the Stormers game. They looked very agressive and effective at the breakdown, and despite not scoring many tries they played with width and threatened on a number of occasions. Like the look of the Stormers 13 and 15 and Habana looks like he is in better form than last season. I wonder how bad the injuries to the two locks on Saturday were?

Assuming Lucas and Harris are back from injury do they both slot into the starting side? Does Schatz also slot straight back in and how will Samo be used? Does anyone know how AWH went off the bench for the Bank yesterday and will he be ready to play in this game?

Looking forward to Friday, it will be a big game.

 

[tranquility]

I am, like everyone else very excited about this match.

My biggest concern is that without A.Finger, we are lacking any sort of sledgehammer in the backline that will put dents in the defense and thus create ascendency for our more fleet-footed backs. I know it is common sense, however if we can't get this front foot ball and we attempt to do sweeping moves / 2nd man-plays we will get stuck behind the advantage line and in great danger of giving up turnovers.

As weird as it seems, I think our best chance of winning this is playing through the forwards and hoping for turnovers. If we can get half as many turnovers as we did against the Ponies and not kick them away, we will be as good a chance as anybody to slice open the defense.

In saying this, I havent watched the Cru match from last night, and I am sure they found more effective ways than I to apply pressure to the Rain-Men.

Kevvie will need to almost be the best player on the paddock for us to take the spoils I would have thought.

 

[Ruggo]

After watching the Saders game, one area that can be exploited is the inside ball. The Stormers drift rather fast in defence.

 

[redstragic]

After watching the Saders game, one area that can be exploited is the inside ball. The Stormers drift rather fast in defence.

Shhh, them rascally stormers might hear you!!

A win this week is enough for me but it is tough to see where the bonus points we need will come from this year.

 

[tigerland12]

Under a week out and this is the side I expect to see.

1- Holmes
2- Hanson
3- Slipper
4- Simmons
5- Horwill
6- Higginbotham
7- Robinson
8- Shatz
9- Genia
10- Lucas
11- Toua/Davies/Morahan
12- Harris
13- Tapuai
14- Shipperely
15- Morahan/Davies/Toua

Bench: Anae, Daley, Wallace-Harrison, Samo, Gill, Frisby, Fainga'a/Davies/Toua

• Front row is self-explanitory, Holmes is a far superior scrummager to Daley and Hanson + Slipper are in good form.
• Simmons is a risk starting, he had a solid game against the Brumbies but he is nowhere near playing well enough to be an automatic selection. It's a shame this is Wallace-Harrisons first game back, he would of been perfect in the line-outs.
• I would be happy with either Gill or Robinson starting, but I'd prefer Robinson for his mongrel and hard-nosed style of play. I definatly would not play then in tandem though, for self-explanatory reasons ( line out ect).
• I think Shatz's work at the breakdown and in tight will be valuable. Allows for Samo (or possibly Quirk) to come off the bench and start belting people with 20 to go.
• In the backs the only hard one is how to fit Davies/Toua/Morahan into two positions. Personally I thought Morahan was decent at fullback last week so I'd expect him to keep his spot. Toua will probably be the one to miss out, which is unfourtunate, because Davies is out of form as is Morahan, and neither warrant a automatic selection.
• Another possibility in the backline is to have Fainga'a start and move either Lucas to the bench. But I'd be less inclined to rush Ant back straight away, and Lucas and Harris are too valuable to have on the bench currently.
• I would not consider moving Harris/Lucas to fullback either as it leaves one less speedster/attacking option out wide. Speed is a big factor, as Habana, van der Heever, Aplon, Pietersen and de Jongh are all agile.

This team is what I EXPECT to be selected, not my personal view.

 

[Ignoto]

• In the backs the only hard one is how to fit Davies/Toua/Morahan into two positions. Personally I thought Morahan was decent at fullback last week so I'd expect him to keep his spot. Toua will probably be the one to miss out, which is unfourtunate, because Davies is out of form as is Morahan, and neither warrant a automatic selection.

One good game out of the past 6/7 shouldn't mean Morahan gets to keep his spot. I've lost faith of him being the last man in defence, Toua's cameo of 50 minutes showed more in defence than Morahan and Davies has all week.

I'd much rather see Toua moved to 13 with Lucas at 15 and Harris at 10. Benny and Mike can interchange roles as attacking fly half, especially when we want to send it wide (Lucas to throw the cut out) or have someone in close run it up (Harris).

It means there's less changes being made in an already disrupted backline. The question will be, is Toua 80+ minutes fit yet? Link will most likely turn up with a 5/2 split, he can't really depend on taking an undercooked back.

 

[Bowside]

After watching the Saders game, one area that can be exploited is the inside ball. The Stormers drift rather fast in defence.

The pick and drive through the ruck can also be exploited.

The reds just need to get the stormers committing more players to the rucks, so there are less of them in the defensive line. The rolling maul might also work.

 

[Penguin]

I'd like to see big Van retained in the side, he's been one of the better Reds tight forwards in the games he's played, got some right mongrel in him & gets over the advantage line & could be a good counter for Bekker in the lineout.

 

[Ruggo]

Under a week out and this is the side I expect to see.

1- Holmes
2- Hanson
3- Slipper
4- Simmons
5- Horwill
6- Higginbotham
7- Robinson
8- Shatz
9- Genia
10- Lucas
11- Toua/Davies/Morahan
12- Harris
13- Tapuai
14- Shipperely
15- Morahan/Davies/Toua

Bench: Anae, Daley, Wallace-Harrison, Samo, Gill, Frisby, Fainga'a/Davies/Toua

• Front row is self-explanitory, Holmes is a far superior scrummager to Daley and Hanson + Slipper are in good form.
• Simmons is a risk starting, he had a solid game against the Brumbies but he is nowhere near playing well enough to be an automatic selection. It's a shame this is Wallace-Harrisons first game back, he would of been perfect in the line-outs.
• I would be happy with either Gill or Robinson starting, but I'd prefer Robinson for his mongrel and hard-nosed style of play. I definatly would not play then in tandem though, for self-explanatory reasons ( line out ect).
• I think Shatz's work at the breakdown and in tight will be valuable. Allows for Samo (or possibly Quirk) to come off the bench and start belting people with 20 to go.
• In the backs the only hard one is how to fit Davies/Toua/Morahan into two positions. Personally I thought Morahan was decent at fullback last week so I'd expect him to keep his spot. Toua will probably be the one to miss out, which is unfourtunate, because Davies is out of form as is Morahan, and neither warrant a automatic selection.
• Another possibility in the backline is to have Fainga'a start and move either Lucas to the bench. But I'd be less inclined to rush Ant back straight away, and Lucas and Harris are too valuable to have on the bench currently.
• I would not consider moving Harris/Lucas to fullback either as it leaves one less speedster/attacking option out wide. Speed is a big factor, as Habana, van der Heever, Aplon, Pietersen and de Jongh are all agile.

This team is what I EXPECT to be selected, not my personal view.

I like your thoughts with one exception. Bring two backs straight into the starting 15 means we would be best with a 4:3 split on the bench. It is to risky not to.

 

[tigerland12]

I like your thoughts with one exception. Bring two backs straight into the starting 15 means we would be best with a 4:3 split on the bench. It is to risky not to.

I actually agree with this, but I'm not sure Link will see it this way. If it was a 4:3 the backrow/bench would have to be.

6- Higginbotham
7- Gill
8- Shatz
Bench: Robinson

or

6- Robinson
7- Gill
8- Higginbotham

Bench: Shatz/Samo

I'd personally prefer the second option, but it significantly weakens our line-out and size in the loose.

In regards to the line-out, this year it seems Higgers is the primary option on out ball. And this worries me against arguably the strongest line out in the competition. This is why I think it is vital Wallace-Harrison is on the bench as he is our best jumping second rower. It also shows that it doesn't matter if we play two opensides, because Shatz/Samo never jump anyway. Chibba needs to be on the mark with his throwing aswell or Bekker will have a field day.

 

[tranquility]

I'd like to see big Van retained in the side, he's been one of the better Reds tight forwards in the games he's played, got some right mongrel in him & gets over the advantage line & could be a good counter for Bekker in the lineout.

I completely agree.
Play Simmo on the bench, AWH will be severely underdone.
The backrow & bench equation are a bit trickier..

 

[PaarlBok]

Cant see the Stormers winning this one. Injuries to our two locks will cost us heavy. Bashed by the Crusaders and a freshed up Champion team. We have to many youngsters to show caracter to hit straight back. Confidense will be an all time low. Our game plan wont work and have been found out. To many kicking back, we need some runners back and build some phases and be patient. Cant see the Stormers getting up and a bonuspoint will be enough from this game.

 

[Sully]

I hope your right Paarl. I'm very worried about this one.

 

[antimony]

Cant see the Stormers winning this one. Injuries to our two locks will cost us heavy. Bashed by the Crusaders and a freshed up Champion team. We have to many youngsters to show caracter to hit straight back. Confidense will be an all time low. Our game plan wont work and have been found out. To many kicking back, we need some runners back and build some phases and be patient. Cant see the Stormers getting up and a bonuspoint will be enough from this game.

I see what your trying to do there Paarl but it won't work. We're Queenslanders and therefore always the underdogs

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Cant see the Stormers winning this one. Injuries to our two locks will cost us heavy.

What's the latest on their injuries? I heard the commentators at the game mention that Becker had back pain, and didn't catch what happened to Etsebeth. Becker's sounded more like a strain, and that he just came off as a precaution.

It will take a top notch effort for the Reds to get home in this one, even with those two out.

 

[suckerforred]

It is actually nice to have this headache for once this season....

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...sh-with-stormers/story-e6frf4qu-1226327562189

 

[RedsHappy]

Interesting that Link declares Lane 'still in the frame' for Friday, and good to see AW-H back playing Premier Grade...