• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Robbie Deans Report Card

Status
Not open for further replies.

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I don't think Robbie Deans' tenure as Wallaby coach has been sufficiently scrutinised. The Wallabies have been picked over almost constantly, but so far the 'sacred cow' that is Dingo Deans has had a pretty easy ride.


Here are a few areas that might merit attention:


1. Wins, particularly against quality opposition

- there has been little headway made in this area, in fact there have been some unfortunate backward steps and capitulations. I don't believe that losing a significant numbers of games in the lead up is necessary for winning the World Cup (in fact previous winners would tend to suggest exactly the opposite). Many elite sportsmen relate that winning is a habit, as is losing - the Wallabies risk making the latter their habit.


2. Selection policy

- the first thing that irks me is his suggestion that he has something to do with the depth in Australian rugby. For better or worse, it has diddly squat to do with 'Robbie come lately'. The players available for selection for the Wallabies have (in most cases) come through the Australian juniors system, and spend the majority of their time with their Super teams or clubs. If any New Zealander is partly responsible for the depth or otherwise in Australian rugby it would be John Mitchell, by virtue of the fact that he coaches the Force. I'm sure Robbie Deans does make a contribution to the development of the Aussie players within the Wallaby squad, but only in proportion to the time he has with them (ie not much). If he had more time he would probably do more.

- I like the idea of an extended squad, but I think it should include a few more experienced campaigners such as Phil Waugh and Al Baxter, and tough guys such as Van Humphries (already this season, and last, the Wallabies seem to be lacking these attributes). Also, I think these guys are certainly in the top 40 Australian players.

- picking anything but the best players for each position is bad policy. Winning matches becomes less likely, with all the follow on from that (see above). Putting players in to 'build depth/experience' is also a bad idea because it devalues the Wallaby Jersey, and it devalues the honour of playing test match rugby for Australia (maybe being a New Zealander colours his attitude to Australian rugby and the Wallaby Jersey) . To play for the Wallabies you should be the best available. You should have to get past the guy ahead of you - no way are any of the available props are better than Al Baxter, no way did any of them have a better s14 season than him (and before anyone tries it on - look at the score board, look at the s14 table).


Tactics

- when the Aussie S14 teams did well they played a high paced aggressive forwards style. They committed players to the breakdown and pressured their opponents. They relied on their fitness to get them through. When they didn't do this they generally did poorly. When the Wallabies don't do this they do poorly. The tactic of being selective about the battles you fight at the breakdown worked very well for the Stormers, but their size had something to do with that success. The Wallabies don't have the same size, but they do have mobility and (hopefully) fitness. They can afford to put pressure on opposition possession, and even more, they play best when they do.


Management Psycho-babble

- listen to his press conferences! Players 'coming back on line'! Co-captains (and one of them was Hoiles)? Wanker.


Stubbornness

- some might call it single minded determination, or internal fortitude, but I'm going to go with stubbornness. If you make a bad decision, don't compound the issue by sticking with it against all reason...Dispensing with the services of Michael Foley. Not having enough hard nut forwards in the squad. Not having enough experienced props in the squad. Some might add Luke Burgess to that list too.


Coaching Pedigree

- he has won a stack of Super titles with the Crusaders

- he has brought some exceptional players through the Crusaders' ranks

- he hasn't had quite that level of success in the international sphere



I post this now, before the England test, so that the performance of the rookie front rowers can prove Deans a genius (I really do rate Daley, but not so much as a scrummager at this stage). It would please me no end if the Wallaby scrum smashed the English, but even parity would be enough. Of course Deans' genius could be that he expects the Wallaby scrum to falter so badly that we'll end up neutralising the England scrum by needing to go uncontested due to injuries (not a happy thought).
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
1. Wins, particularly against quality opposition

Wallaby coaches winning percentage:

1st MacQueen = 79.07% (34 from 43)
2nd Alan Jones = 70% (21 from 30)
3rd John Connolly = 64% (16 from 25)
4th Greg Smith = 63.16% (12 from 19)
5th Bob Dwyer = 63.01% (46 from 73)
6th Daryl Haberecht = 60% (3 from 5)
7th Eddie Jones = 57.89% (33 from 57)
8th Robbie Deans = 55.17% (16 from 29)

Now I am not positive if Daryl Haberecht's is right, nor do I have confirmed details on Dave Brockhoff nor Bob Templeton, but they aint great stats for Robbie.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
With regards on the breakdown tactics of the Wallabies, keep in mind they have only played one game.

Gagger's latest analytic video on the blog makes the point that the "Fan out" tactics may have been a poignant tactic against the Fijians, who are known to use width well. The Aus BaaBaa's game was reminder of the style of play England use, and you never know, maybe Deans will change the tactics.

As I said on the Aus vs Eng @ Perth thread, I hate losing, especially in grudge matches to NZ, SA and England. If the Wallabies dont start winning at least their home games in the TN's this year, I will start the "Deans Must Go Alliance" (ala FHC).

Help a youngen out: Who is Daryl Haberecht?
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
DPK, mate he was the NSW Country coach in the mid-late 70s? Now that team at the time were real innovators. They scored a famous try (v Sydney I think) which was the famous "Up the Jumper Try". They also scored a try (which was disallowed) where the blind winger run over the top of a 5m scrum to score.

Anyway, he coached a few Wallaby tests. Most famously he was the coach on the 1978 Wallaby tour to NZ. We were beaten in the first two tests and then he had a heart attack a day or two before the 3rd test. Captain Tony Shaw took over and we won - it being the famous Greg Cornelson 4 try test.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I have some concerns, tactical issues really.

1, the not committing players to the breakdown, we keep getting owned through slow ball under pressure from the real sides that attack the ball
2, the lack of support for ball carriers, we need a pod style philosophy with units driving on the hip of ball runners to get over the advantage line. Rugby is a team game, players going one out get owned
3, the lack of guile in the back line play (Cooper excepted), too much catch and pass, not enough angles and looping and supporting (Beale excepted).
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
This Deans hate stuff is out of control. Where has it come from all of a sudden?

I don't agree with everything he's done but some of the comments here are hysteria. I just read another thread where Noddy had posted his win percentage. It's madness. The guy was given a brief to turn the Wallabies into a world class side by the WC and he's doing it. The side was a basket case when he took it over and so he pulled it apart and started rebuilding. 3 years into the project you're complaining about win percentages, "Psycho-babble" & "stubbornness".

Can't you all see how far this squad has come and the potential we're on verge of? This isn't going to be a team that's only good for only the 2011 WC. This will be a team that sets us up for the next 2 world cups and beyond.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
I have some concerns, tactical issues really.

1, the not committing players to the breakdown, we keep getting owned through slow ball under pressure from the real sides that attack the ball
2, the lack of support for ball carriers, we need a pod style philosophy with units driving on the hip of ball runners to get over the advantage line. Rugby is a team game, players going one out get owned
3, the lack of guile in the back line play (Cooper excepted), too much catch and pass, not enough angles and looping and supporting (Beale excepted).

Good post FP.

1. These problems made ever the more worse when Burgess is the one clearing the ball
2. OZ need to employ this philosphy (ie pods) in both attack and defence.
3. Giteau standing in the car park is a real detterent to what you describe. Cooper seems far more comfortable at taking on the line with ball in hand to create a play than wait for something. When Giteau stood so deep it was very catch, wait, pass/kick. Makes it very difficult for others IMO
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
rsea, I wouldn't call it hysteria at all. The reason why such talk has sprung about is because so far in the limited international season that we have had, we have seen the same decisions, tactics, and selections that have seen the Wallabies perform badly against our Tri-Nations opponents. It's good to review things like this, and putting blind faith into things is not a very rationale way to go about things.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
rsea, I wouldn't call it hysteria at all. The reason why such talk has sprung about is because so far in the limited international season that we have had, we have seen the same decisions, tactics, and selections that have seen the Wallabies perform badly against our Tri-Nations opponents. It's good to review things like this, and putting blind faith into things is not a very rationale way to go about things.
hahahah my views are far from blind faith my friend, but I think theirs many on the board who are being far to hard on Mr Deans and not giving credit for the terrific foundations he's built.
 
T

tranquility

Guest
I agree, don't jump off the bandwagon too early. The walk might be a lonely one!
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
...many on the board who are being far to hard on Mr Deans and not giving credit for the terrific foundations he's built.


being far too hard? I think people are generally not being hard enough - why shouldn't Deans come under the same scrutiny as any other Wallaby coach?

So far your case for the defence is that he has built foundations - see point 2 - the quality young players were developed by others. Next!
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Langthorne - No ones saying he shouldn't be subject to scrutiny but your topic is more attack than scrutiny. We all want results and we all want them now. If you want improvements, they're there already, but I wouldn't expect to be beating top tier nations regularly until next season. I disagree with your comments that all the work with young players can be attributed wholly to others and I don't think you're acknowledging how far we've come.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Ok, so I'm saying some selections, tactics and the win/loss ratio are not good - are you saying they are all fine?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
rsea- I understand your argument, but langthorne's is also very valid. Let's not kid ourselves- the Wallabies only won ONE GAME in last years TN.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Ok, so I'm saying some selections, tactics and the win/loss ratio are not good - are you saying they are all fine?

No I'm not happy I want more, much more. BUT I understand it takes time. We're headed in the right direction and I think it'll come together for WC2011.

I see no sense in complaining now, that we're not where we want to be next year and if I didn't think we were going to get there, I'd probably be complaining with you.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
Yeah I'm with Langthorne on this I want to see some silverware we've been patient long enough, why do we have to wait for a RWC year to hit our straps? The poms were starting to dominate world rugby two years out from the 2003 RWC.

I'd love to win the world cup but the Bledisloe & Tri Nations would make me just as happy.

I think Deans is very stubborn he has a game plan that worked well in the super 14 but like the players you have to go up a level for test rugby & Deans hasn't.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I thought we went backwards by some margin last year which was all the more disappointing given our expectations were raised by the 2008 performances. Last years bland sham results took away any confidence I had in deans so he needs a very good run of results this year, otherwise I honestly think we should dump him for this years EOYT.

I don't have anmy problems with the pscho babble, all coaches do it these days and it seems to be a core comeptency and is necessary to ensure the journey commences with small steps and .......
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Yeah lets all get out the pitch forks and reinstate knuckles...

Hold it right there- there's been a lot of criticism here, but I don't think anyone has mention replacing Deans. He's locked in til next year anyway.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top